antelope Orion 32

digitaldrummer · Post by **digitaldrummer** » Tue Jul 09, 2013 9:35 am

anyone have any experienced with one of these? Just wondering if they are as nice as they look. Honestly I only need half of one of these but I don't think they will sell me that...

If you have used one, was it Mac/windows, Pro Tools or other? did you use it with a console or a monitor controller (which type?).

I think one of these and a Coleman Audio MP3H or a Dangerous Dbox would be real nice...

Mike

drumsound · Post by **drumsound** » Tue Jul 09, 2013 5:46 pm

I'm using one with a brand new Mac Mini and Pro Tools 10. It's working out really well for me and I think it sounds great. From what I've read, it's not as friendly with older computers. I'll be writing a review for the magazine.

digitaldrummer · Post by **digitaldrummer** » Tue Jul 09, 2013 6:25 pm

cool. well, I'm on Windows 7 (not an old system) but still on Pro Tools 9. I really like the idea of having a single converter (today I use a Black Lion modded Digi002r and an RME ADI-8) since I have a lot of outboard pres, etc. I'm happy with the sound of the BLA mod but from what I've seen it looks like the virtual console app on the Orion would make it really easy to build headphone mixes, etc. which is a bit clunky on the 002R.

Mike

drumsound · Post by **drumsound** » Wed Jul 10, 2013 2:51 pm

I use my console for the headphone mix.

John Jeffers · Post by **John Jeffers** » Sat Jul 13, 2013 2:56 pm

There's a 60-page thread over at Gearslutz you should read if you have a couple days.

http://www.gearslutz.com/board/product- ... erter.html

My own experiences have been mixed for sure. I bought one back in April, and could not get it to work reliably over USB on either a 2008 Mac Pro (8-core Xeon) tower or a 2011 Macbook Pro (i7). It would work for several minutes, and then I would get nasty glitches that would spike all the outputs with horrible distortion. It was unusable.

After a lengthy back-and-forth with Orion, they told me that I had an earlier hardware revision and they shipped me a newer unit. That didn't fix the problem, either. I tried everything Orion suggested, plus a few things they didn't. I installed a dedicated USB card in my Mac Pro so the Orion wouldn't have to share the USB bus with any other devices. I completely wiped my computer and reinstalled everything. I sacrificed a chicken to Quetzalcoatl. No luck.

I finally broke down and got an SSL MadiXtreme 64 for my Mac Pro and hooked it up to that. It works flawlessly over MADI, as you might expect.

So, the bottom line from my perpective is that you should give it a go over USB. If it works for you (as it apparently has for some), then consider yourself lucky. Otherwise, be prepared to spend at least another $1,000 on a MADI card and cables (if you have a PCIe slot) and even more $$$ if you need an expansion chassis for that MADI card.

I'm pretty hopeful that USB stability will be improved with driver/firmware updates, so I'm going to keep trying it on the laptop as those get released. But for now, MADI on the Mac Pro is rock solid, so I'm sticking to that for any serious work.

John Jeffers · Post by **John Jeffers** » Sat Jul 13, 2013 3:01 pm

BTW, if you want to see the problem I was talking about, I put together a video for Orion support.

http://atomland.net/downloads/orion-glitching.mov

Jim Williams · Post by **Jim Williams** » Mon Jul 15, 2013 7:53 am

Someone else asked me about this box, it's hard to deciper what it is and what it uses. Specs are short, as usual in this post-acoptolytic record biz world.

-98 dbu THD+noise for the DAC is piss-poor performance, not even up to 17 bit specs. Burrbrown's best DAC's do -117 dbu THD+noise and ESS has one that does -120 dbu THD+noise. Take 20+ db of dirt off your conversion and you will hear that.

I suspect they used lower cost multi-channel CODEC's in this design. What you won't find are BurrBrown PCM4222 ADC's or PCM1792/4 DAC's nor any ESS stuff. The power requirements and heat produced would never allow cramming 32 channels in a 1RU case. At $20 plus per chip, it wouldn't cost 3 grand either. You do get what you pay for in this world.

BTW, anyone want to open the lid and tell what converter chips they used?

digitaldrummer · Post by **digitaldrummer** » Mon Jul 15, 2013 8:13 am

good point, that spec is a bit off of other converters that may be in the same ballpark (UA Apollo, Lynx 16 -- these look better). I'm not expecting it to be the highest end (Prism, Lavry, etc.) but not wanting Prosumer either...

The fact that they did cram 32 channels into 1U is impressive, and using USB 2.0 on top of it -- but not if quality is sacrificed. A lot of the reviews seem to say the "sound" is good though (maybe because the ADC spec looks more in line with others?).

But I'm interested to know what kind of converters are inside too.

Mike

Nick Sevilla · Post by **Nick Sevilla** » Mon Jul 15, 2013 8:22 am

THis might have been wonderful, if not for the USB2.0spec. Yuck.

They could have done USB 3.0...

digitaldrummer · Post by **digitaldrummer** » Mon Jul 15, 2013 8:34 am

Nick Sevilla wrote:
They could have done USB 3.0...

yeah, I'm also skeptical about the USB 2.0 usage. In every comparison I have seen of USB2 vs. FW400 (which have comparable bandwidth -- 480 vs 400 Mbps), FW400 always outperformed as USB 2.0 always consumed tons more host CPU. That would be a concern for a DAW running plugins. Might not be as big of a deal if you are just using this for getting audio in/out of a console (like Tony above...).

Mike

John Jeffers · Post by **John Jeffers** » Mon Jul 15, 2013 9:41 am

I agree that USB2 is a bad design decision. It would have made more sense to have a modular design. Buy the base unit, then choose a port module. USB 3, Firewire 800, or Thunderbolt, for example.

Oh well, at least there's a MADI option. That's what kept me from selling mine after I couldn't get USB2 to work.

drumsound · Post by **drumsound** » Mon Jul 15, 2013 12:21 pm

It really does seem that the "custom USB" deal that Antelope used on this piece does only want to play nice with new computers. That is a misstep. I'm lucky because I bought a new computer at the same time..

The sound of the unit is really great though. I sent a rough mix to Chris Garges last week. Chris is a hardcore RADAR guy, and even bought an iZ ADA for his new PT rig. He commented that the cymbals didn't sound off, like so many "affordable" converters. This was a 44.1 recording, and I've got to say the more I use and listen to the Orion, the more impressed I have become.

cgarges · Post by **cgarges** » Wed Jul 17, 2013 1:48 am

While I lucked into a deal on an iZ ADA converter, the Orion was on my purchase list for my new PT setup before I scored the ADA. It seemed like a worthy piece to check out. Tony and I were shopping at the same time. The recordings Tony sent me recently sounded great. A good friend of mine with extremely discerning ears heard one recently. He has similar opinions about converters that I do (many are "okay" and few are special) and his impression of the Orion was that there was "absolutely nothing fucked-up sounding" about it at all. I kind of thought the same thing of Tony's recording. Totally pleasant across the spectrum that I heard. I'll admit that that was just through some semi-crappy computer Walkman-type headphones, but if the top and midrange don't sound funny there, that's a damn good start.

Chris Garges
Charlotte, NC

drumsound · Post by **drumsound** » Wed Jul 17, 2013 2:43 pm

Jim Williams wrote:Someone else asked me about this box, it's hard to deciper what it is and what it uses. Specs are short, as usual in this post-acoptolytic record biz world.

-98 dbu THD+noise for the DAC is piss-poor performance, not even up to 17 bit specs. Burrbrown's best DAC's do -117 dbu THD+noise and ESS has one that does -120 dbu THD+noise. Take 20+ db of dirt off your conversion and you will hear that.

I suspect they used lower cost multi-channel CODEC's in this design. What you won't find are BurrBrown PCM4222 ADC's or PCM1792/4 DAC's nor any ESS stuff. The power requirements and heat produced would never allow cramming 32 channels in a 1RU case. At $20 plus per chip, it wouldn't cost 3 grand either. You do get what you pay for in this world.

BTW, anyone want to open the lid and tell what converter chips they used?

Have you ever once judged a piece of gear on it's SOUND and not on the pieces inside or the spec sheet?

Jim Williams · Post by **Jim Williams** » Thu Jul 18, 2013 8:26 am

No never, I listen with my eyes.

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