Figure 8 uses

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Rufer
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Figure 8 uses

Post by Rufer » Sun Dec 22, 2013 3:31 pm

Curious for what applications figure 8 mics are well-suited. M/S I understand is one common use. Also placing unwanted elements in its null spots. But what else?

I have a Beyer m130 that I bought for M/S in my one-person productions but what else should I check it on? Thanks.
Last edited by Rufer on Mon Dec 23, 2013 3:49 am, edited 2 times in total.

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Post by vvv » Sun Dec 22, 2013 3:37 pm

I like fig. 8 for room mic on guitar amps.

Sometimes on vocals, also.

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Post by A.David.MacKinnon » Sun Dec 22, 2013 9:13 pm

Room mic with the null aimed at the source.
Duet vocals on the same mic (one singer on each side)
Singer/songwriter/guitar players - 2 fig 8s - one pointed at the guitar with the null aimed at the singers mouth, the other vice versa. Amazing isolation without isolation.
Close overheads that still have a nice room feel to them.

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Post by drumsound » Mon Dec 23, 2013 8:35 am

Figure 8 mics are great on guitar amps, you get some room that is different from using a room mic. I also quite like Blumlein stereo because of how the space is represented.

As mentioned on a singer/guitar player you can do a lot to isolate the two sources. Personally on those sessions I like stereo guitar, so I often only have a figure 8 on vocal so that I have separation for EQ and compression.

I haven't used a Beyer M380 in years, but I think the concept of a figure 8 inside a bass drum makes sense.

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Post by JWL » Mon Dec 23, 2013 2:32 pm

I use them most often for acoustic singer/musicians who prefer to track all at once. As stated above you can aim the null points toward what you don't want and get pretty good isolation. We did a video explaining this technique (along with other techniques such as acoustic treatment) here:

http://youtu.be/Y_b3gwDzcVo

Also, Fig-8 mics tend have the most proximity effect, so this can sometimes be used to enhance the tone/low end of what you are recording....

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Post by ott0bot » Tue Dec 24, 2013 1:55 am

all of the above.

also, I love using fig 8's for recording strings. if you have a small chamber group arranged in a 1/2 circle you can cleverly place fig 8 mics to null out the direct sound from other stings to a large degree, and still capture some of the room plus some pleasing bleed. this gives the performance a naturally captured feel and you can just do a volume increase to "feature" a certain instrument without having an unnatural volume shift that sounds like a punch.

in a addition if you are tracking vocalists that have trouble recording with headphones (opera, choral, falsetto, etc.) you can place small monitor in the null and help them get a better performance.

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Post by RoyMatthews » Tue Dec 24, 2013 6:08 am

If I'm recording group vocals in a less than ideal room or if I want them to be more direct sounding I'll put up 2 figure-8s set up like a Blumlein pair but submix it to mono. Especially if the plan is to double the part. It gives me a little more control than just throwing up an omni and less floor/ceiling reflections. Plus I can feature on mic or another if I need to balance the singers before recording.

Also you can record a figure 8 with an omni and blend them to make a new pattern later.
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Post by Gregg Juke » Tue Dec 24, 2013 9:11 am

The one I would disagree with would be duet vocals. This application has not panned out/paid-off in my experience. You do not get an even response from both sides (perhaps you do with the most expensive, top-level mikes; I don't know), you are stuck with a single vocal track, you have to make volume adjustments with envelopes rather than separate faders/controls (if you are in-the-box, otherwise, you can't control the vox separately at all), and the same is true of EQ, compression, any FX, etc.

It's a great sounding idea, but just stick with two cardioids and two separate tracks for each singer; you'll thank yourself later...

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Post by drumsound » Tue Dec 24, 2013 11:09 am

Gregg Juke wrote:The one I would disagree with would be duet vocals. This application has not panned out/paid-off in my experience. You do not get an even response from both sides (perhaps you do with the most expensive, top-level mikes; I don't know), you are stuck with a single vocal track, you have to make volume adjustments with envelopes rather than separate faders/controls (if you are in-the-box, otherwise, you can't control the vox separately at all), and the same is true of EQ, compression, any FX, etc.

It's a great sounding idea, but just stick with two cardioids and two separate tracks for each singer; you'll thank yourself later...

GJ
It is fairly singer dependent. You have to play with each singer's distance from the mic, plus the tone of the singers voice does need to work is a similar fashion. I think the last time I did it, I did end up multing the signal when mix time came about. I will more often than not just use two mics as well.

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Post by drumsound » Tue Dec 24, 2013 11:13 am

I just remembers this one. I was cutting 2 guitar players playing a trading solo a couple years back. I thought it would be pretty cool to track them together. I set up the amps and a pair of TOMB ribbons in Blumlein and off we went!

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Post by losthighway » Wed Dec 25, 2013 8:01 am

I think there is something about the null on a figure 8 that makes it really handy in certain tracking situations. I've found numerous situations when I was tracking multiple musicians with a multi-pattern LDC where picking the fig 8 pattern helped my positioning/separation a lot.

I also love them for the two mic, solo singer/acoustic guitarist. Usually a ribbon on the guitar angled so the null cuts out the vocals, and a tube LDC on the voice with the null pointed at the guitar. Amazing separation and much cleaner without the phase issues.

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Post by drumsound » Wed Dec 25, 2013 9:13 pm

JWL wrote:I use them most often for acoustic singer/musicians who prefer to track all at once. As stated above you can aim the null points toward what you don't want and get pretty good isolation. We did a video explaining this technique (along with other techniques such as acoustic treatment) here:

http://youtu.be/Y_b3gwDzcVo

Also, Fig-8 mics tend have the most proximity effect, so this can sometimes be used to enhance the tone/low end of what you are recording....
I thought I responded to this yesterday... Super cool video, thanks for sharing.

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Post by Rufer » Thu Dec 26, 2013 9:13 am

Great responses all - including the video. A few things I hadn't considered too.

Thanks for sharing.

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Post by IanWalker » Thu Dec 26, 2013 9:53 am

I have to agree with Blumlein as well. It's a great way to capture a source in stereo and still get the room in there as well. Won't work well in a bad room, obviously.

Blumlein center with omni outriggers is my favorite setup for classical in a nice sounding hall - well, when a Decca Tree with outriggers isn't an option, or isn't practical for some reason.
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Post by cgarges » Thu Dec 26, 2013 11:01 am

Proximity effect.

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