Sharing time- acoustic ensemble tracking advice

[nobody, really]

Hey guys and gals, anyone have some advice/ideas for this project I'm tracking? It's an acoustic ensemble: violin/vox, guitar, perc(cajon), accordian, clarinet, sax, double bass/cello. Room is an old hall, pretty live and/or an old house with wood floors and ceiling. Available mics are c12, u47(diy bastards) pair of ksm141's, TAB'd 57, ev635. Live, same room, no cans.
The violin/fem vox will be the main featured thing. how would you arrange the players? what mics would you use and on what? How to deal with separation, but having them still be able to hear themselves?
I don't need to lose sleep over this, but I also don't want to look like an idiot. Too much.
Thanks all.....

[JWL]

If that were me, I'd probably set them up in a half circle and mic the ensemble with one of the good mics. Maybe the small diaphragm condensers in stereo.

Have the singer be at the center of the half-circle, with the cajon on one side and the bass/cello on the other. Then have the melodic instruments on the outside, I'd probably do accordion on one side and the clarinet/sax on the other.

Do a spot mic on each of those, maybe the C12 or U47 on the violin/lead, with the other on the main instrument (guitar? Bass?)

The cajon will work with a dynamic, maybe the 57. Try the 635 on the accordion maybe, though often accordions need 2 mics.

Main strategy should be to get a really nice balance with the stereo pair to capture the ensemble, add in the lead and the other spot mics to bring various things into focus throughout the song.

[A.David.MacKinnon]

^^^^ Agreed.
I'd set up the best pair of mics I have in stereo and arrange the players around that. Imagine that the mic pair is the audience and arrange the players so they sit where you want them to be in the mix. Experiment moving players side to side, closer or farther until you get a nice picture. Then spot mic anything that needs it. Pan the spot mics to coincide with what's going in in the main stereo pair.

[nobody, really]

Hmm, what about m/s with the two ldc's? So that the u47 (mid)ends up the main vox/violin mic? I have zero experience with m/s but have always wanted to try it out.

[Nick Sevilla]

Hmm, what about m/s with the two ldc's? So that the u47 (mid)ends up the main vox/violin mic? I have zero experience with m/s but have always wanted to try it out.

One of them needs to be able to do figure-8 pattern.

Cheers

[nobody, really]

One of them needs to be able to do figure-8 pattern.

Cheers

The c12 does figure-8.

[JWL]

Yeah, M/S is cool for situations like this.

[nobody, really]

Thanks guys.

[nobody, really]

So the tracking went okay. The band wasn't really ready to record, they were mostly still working out parts. We're going to try again soon. The m/s thing worked very nicely, but the thing that surprised me was how freakin good those ksm141's are. I was expecting to just use 'em and lose 'em, but now I'm starting to give sidelong glances at those fancy tube ldc's that I slaved over. I'll see if I can't post up something soon.

[Nick Sevilla]

So the tracking went okay. The band wasn't really ready to record, they were mostly still working out parts. We're going to try again soon. The m/s thing worked very nicely, but the thing that surprised me was how freakin good those ksm141's are. I was expecting to just use 'em and lose 'em, but now I'm starting to give sidelong glances at those fancy tube ldc's that I slaved over. I'll see if I can't post up something soon.

Hi,

Hopefully they will be 100% ready next time. It is too common now for bands to simply not have their shit together when they walk into a recording studio. SMH.

And

Yes, those Shure KSM141s are very good. Favorites of Eddie Kramer (Jimi Hendrix et al.)

Cheers

[nobody, really]

Here's a short clip of how it came out. It's a real ruff mix. mainly the mk47 and c12 in m/s and a couple ksm141 spots for the perc and cello.
https://soundcloud.com/teacat77/jcc-snip
like I said they were still working stuff out at this point, but they are a bunch of good musicians and the songwriter is very talented, so I'll be stoked to see where this goes.

[JWL]

Sounds cool. The balance seems a bit off to me, the melodic instruments (except the cello) sound softer and further away to me.

Maybe next time you can play with the distance between each performer and the stereo pair. Or, put the spot mics on the quietest instruments.

Definitely a great start though. I'd be interested in hearing more for sure.

Here's a similar recording I did (stereo pair + spot mics) for an acoustic ensemble of 4 percussionists, violin, acoustic guitar, and accordion: http://www.craftedrecordings.com/2013/0 ... k-follies/

[nobody, really]

Yep, you are absolutely right. After the percussionist left I moved that mic over to the clarinet which helped. I have some better ideas for next time.
Thanks for that link, inspiring to hear what can be possible in that kind of situation, (at least with someone who knows what they're doing).
Did you spot mic with ribbons, or were they just the stereo pair?

[Snarl 12/8]

JWL, is that "dark follies" stuff compressed? It sounds very "larger than life."

[JWL]

Stereo pair, a room mic, and 5 spot mics. Lots of ribbons used throughout the session. Can't remember specifics except I used 2 Nady RSM-4s on the violin and the accordion.