Pro Tools 11, 11 native, 11 native HD, 11 HDX

[trodden]

I've been engulfed in a few threads over at another web board... However, due to the nature of that board, I have to take some of it with a grain of salt. So here I am at TOMB, a more familiar stomping ground.

I'm behind the times. I know this. BUT, I didn't know that I was so behind the times that I can't even fucking decipher what the fuck the differences between the various pro tools options.

I'm currently on a Mix Plus rig. I've been tossing around the idea that someday... SOMEDAY I may be able to move onto a more "modern" pro tools system.

Yes, Pro Tools. I'm not interested in using another DAW.. Save your typing fingers.

Entertaining the thought that I'd get PT 11 for my macbook, and begin figuring out all the new jib jabs and fizz bangs to start, and being able to edit stuff on the go and put together a mobile rig, while still using the MIX PLUS rig for most of the work happening in the studio. Now that you don't have to have the AVID/DIGI dongle, figured that this would be a cool way to get caught up on the lates PT.

But damn... there's pages and pages of people arguing out there about which is better..

I'm interested in what you're using and why? If I get basic protools 11 for my macbook, I want to be able to move up to HD someday, I think?? Is the software pretty much the same and the only thing that makes the features different involve the hardware?

THanks for your time,
Brandon

[trodden]

I also got a brutally painful infected finger from ripping off a hang nail... any suggestions...

[roscoenyc]

Are you using Mix Plus with a vintage computer?
Have you been running PT 6 for all this time?

[John Jeffers]

I've been using non-HD Pro Tools for years, and it works fine for me. Since you are pretty far behind version-wise, I'll try to sum up what's new.

When version 9 opened up the ability to use non-Avid interfaces, it really changed the game. Being able to use essentially whatever interface you want (or none at all, if you just need to mix on a laptop, for example) is super nice, and means you're not tied to Digi/Avid's midrange interfaces like the mBox or 003 if you can't afford HD.

PT 11 was a ground-up rewrite, and included a whole new 64-bit audio engine and a new plugin format (AAX64). It's worth noting this because not everyone has ported their plugins over to the new AAX64 format, and PT 11 CANNOT run RTAS or TDM, or even the 32-bit AAX plugins that worked in PT 10.

It's also worth noting that there seems to be less uptake for AAX64 DSP that runs on the HDX cards. It's a lot easier to find AAX64 Native plugins that just use the host system CPU. Something to keep in mind if you rely heavily on TDM plugins on your current system.

PT HD (now HDX) brings some nice improvements, but I can't justify the cost. It's just too damned expensive for what you get. Sure, I'd love to have VCAs and proper input monitoring, but I have workarounds. Realistically, the only thing that could justify HDX's outrageous cost for me would be if I absolutely had to have more than 32 I/O.

BTW, here's a nice comparison chart:
http://www.avid.com/US/Common/products/ ... ison-table

Hope that helps.

[John Jeffers]

Forgot to answer this question:

If I get basic protools 11 for my macbook, I want to be able to move up to HD someday, I think?? Is the software pretty much the same and the only thing that makes the features different involve the hardware?

Yes, the software is identical. The extra features are activated by your iLok license. If you have an HD license, you get the HD features, whether or not you are connected to HD/HDX hardware.

Of course, it's not possible to buy the HD license without also buying hardware -- at least, not through any official channels. Avid still has to screw their customers out of something.

[trodden]

Are you using Mix Plus with a vintage computer?
Have you been running PT 6 for all this time?

Yeth. I'm on a vintage G4 using 6.4 and before that a vintage blue and white G3 with OS 9 and PT 5.

The G4 is on its last legs. I need to start stock piling G4's if anything.

[trodden]

I've been using non-HD Pro Tools for years, and it works fine for me. Since you are pretty far behind version-wise, I'll try to sum up what's new...

BTW, here's a nice comparison chart:
http://www.avid.com/US/Common/products/ ... ison-table

Hope that helps.

John,
Thanks for taking the time to offer your input.

Yeah, I've looked at the various comparison charts along with price tags that go along with those charts... and it seems HDX is something I don't need to go into debt over. I rarely/never have over 24 inputs for one. My sessions usually are between 16-34 tracks at the most. I pretty much only use a handful of plugins (Sonnex, Massey, BombFactory, Digi). I mix out of the box and use outboard as well.

However, I'd LOVE to be able to take my laptop to a rehearsal space and do pre production or demo work for clients. Also, I'd LOVE to have access to the new plug ins out there. Just seeing what's available over at a friends studio made me realize that there are a lot of cool (USEABLE) plugs out there.

So I'm a bit at a loss when people are arguing about Native vs HDX online. I can't tell if its just the yacht owners justifying their yachts they never sail, or if they're actually tried and true sea dogs and that the latency they speak of is really that bad in Native???

I figure ANYTHING is going to be light years of the work arounds I deal with in 6.4.

[trodden]

Forgot to answer this question:

Yes, the software is identical. The extra features are activated by your iLok license. If you have an HD license, you get the HD features, whether or not you are connected to HD/HDX hardware.

Ok. So if I, say, purchase the "student" version of PT11 (which is Native, correct?) and install it on the macbook, and then in a few months after I find that suitcase full of money and feel the need to upgrade to HD, its just an iLok License issue that gets me up to "This shit to play in LA, Homie" Gearslutz status?

How many versions are there? HDX, HD Native, Native, and Express?? Is there just "Native" as well as "HD Native"?? Definitely not interested in the Express version.

Of course, it's not possible to buy the HD license without also buying hardware -- at least, not through any official channels. Avid still has to screw their customers out of something.

No way... wow... of course they did that...

[John Jeffers]

Ok. So if I, say, purchase the "student" version of PT11 (which is Native, correct?) and install it on the macbook, and then in a few months after I find that suitcase full of money and feel the need to upgrade to HD, its just an iLok License issue that gets me up to "This shit to play in LA, Homie" Gearslutz status?

How many versions are there? HDX, HD Native, Native, and Express?? Is there just "Native" as well as "HD Native"?? Definitely not interested in the Express version.

OK, as far as the hardware goes, there is HDX and HD Native.

HDX is the full-blown, crazy expensive version that uses the PCIe DSP cards that run the AAX64-DSP plugins.

HD Native is the slightly-less-expensive-but-still-painful version that uses either a PCIe card or a Thunderbolt expansion chassis, has no onboard DSP, and uses regular AAX64 plugins running on the host computer, same as the non-HD version. The advantage of HD Native is lower latency and access to HD features at a lower price than HDX.

--------

When it comes to the software, there are only two editions (intentionally ignoring Express), Pro Tools and Pro Tools HD.

Pro Tools is what you get when you buy standalone with no hardware.
Pro Tools HD is what you get when you buy EITHER HDX or HD Native hardware.

The suitcase full of money will allow you to upgrade to HD without reinstalling any software, 'cause like I said, it's all about the iLok license.

Let me know if you find that suitcase and get some respect over at Gearslutz, 'cause I haven't gotten there yet.

[John Jeffers]

So I'm a bit at a loss when people are arguing about Native vs HDX online. I can't tell if its just the yacht owners justifying their yachts they never sail, or if they're actually tried and true sea dogs and that the latency they speak of is really that bad in Native???

I'm sure the latency improvements are great, but for us mortals without a large budget, we find workarounds. I generally am able to run at a low enough buffer that I get usable latency in native. I have yet to have anyone say "I can't work like this".

[Nick Sevilla]

Hi,

Pro Tools 9 and above all have a "low latency mode" when you use their Avid hardware.

No, you cannot monitor native plug ins in record mode.

But there is no latency using the DAW like this.

I use it like this and only use a reverb / delay on an AUX for ambience, when I need to do recordings outside my studio and do not wish to lug around my HD rig.

I have used both versions for a long time. I am currently on 10, and 11 is supposed to be "better" but all my pro friends have yet to sink their wallets into it.

You can currently find a newer ProTools HD rig that can run 10 for under 3K. The Digidesign branded converters are really a step up from what you have, and are not that much worse than the "new" ones. I have those, and have demoed the newer Avid converters. Meh...

Cheers

[kslight]

The problem with PT10 and PT11 is that your sessions are no longer straight compatible to your older system, if you had a session you started on 6.4 or whatever you'll have to open it in PT11, then save as PT11 format?then if you want to work again on the old system, open it in PT11 then save back as the older format again. At least that's the way I understand it, anyone care to correct me?

For that reason I'm still on PT9, because I do a lot of work on an old G5 based HD system running 7.1, it would just make my life more difficult at the moment, and I haven't felt the need for any of PT10/PT11s new features (of which I could not name any, except for the PT11 being a rewrite and not supporting RTAS?which also means I might run into plugin issues).

If you are planning on running the Mix Plus system for the forseeable future and just want a portable system, it might be less hassle just to put PT9 on a laptop for now until you're ready to put the Mix Plus out of its misery (I believe you can buy PT11 and download the PT9 stuff and get a license key from Avid for pretty much any older version, if you can't find a PT9 license for sale).

[Nick Sevilla]

The problem with PT10 and PT11 is that your sessions are no longer straight compatible to your older system, if you had a session you started on 6.4 or whatever you'll have to open it in PT11, then save as PT11 format?then if you want to work again on the old system, open it in PT11 then save back as the older format again. At least that's the way I understand it, anyone care to correct me?

For that reason I'm still on PT9, because I do a lot of work on an old G5 based HD system running 7.1, it would just make my life more difficult at the moment, and I haven't felt the need for any of PT10/PT11s new features (of which I could not name any, except for the PT11 being a rewrite and not supporting RTAS?which also means I might run into plugin issues).

If you are planning on running the Mix Plus system for the forseeable future and just want a portable system, it might be less hassle just to put PT9 on a laptop for now until you're ready to put the Mix Plus out of its misery (I believe you can buy PT11 and download the PT9 stuff and get a license key from Avid for pretty much any older version, if you can't find a PT9 license for sale).

Hi KS,

Yes, you have to "save as" to older versions of Pro Tools from newer versions. That has been the case since version 5.

As to new features on 10 and upwards, I LOVE being able to load all the audio tracks into RAM, instead of having them stream from disk. 1. it saves your hard drive from earlier failure, and 2, when you press spacebar (play), it plays IMMEDIATELY. Before, and trodden can attest to this, you would press play, and if you had lots of tracks and edits, you could wait as much as 9 seconds before it would play back. Screw that!

And also, CLIP GAIN. You finally have the Nuendo-like clip volume right on the region, now called "clip". Yes. Saves a ton of time when editing vocals or outrageously dynamic stuff, without resorting to compression nor other destructive editing techniques.

As to having two versions of ProTools on one iLok, I have 9 and 10 on my two iLoks (both regular and HD versions.) This guarantees that if I needed to run version 9 on another system, I just bring my iLok and Presto! I have all the 9HD or 10HD features.

You cannot however have older versions than 11 and 10 currently, unless you own more than one system, because they do have you surrender your old licenses if you are upgrading.

Cheers

[kslight]

The problem with PT10 and PT11 is that your sessions are no longer straight compatible to your older system, if you had a session you started on 6.4 or whatever you'll have to open it in PT11, then save as PT11 format?then if you want to work again on the old system, open it in PT11 then save back as the older format again. At least that's the way I understand it, anyone care to correct me?

For that reason I'm still on PT9, because I do a lot of work on an old G5 based HD system running 7.1, it would just make my life more difficult at the moment, and I haven't felt the need for any of PT10/PT11s new features (of which I could not name any, except for the PT11 being a rewrite and not supporting RTAS?which also means I might run into plugin issues).

If you are planning on running the Mix Plus system for the forseeable future and just want a portable system, it might be less hassle just to put PT9 on a laptop for now until you're ready to put the Mix Plus out of its misery (I believe you can buy PT11 and download the PT9 stuff and get a license key from Avid for pretty much any older version, if you can't find a PT9 license for sale).

Hi KS,

Yes, you have to "save as" to older versions of Pro Tools from newer versions. That has been the case since version 5.

As to new features on 10 and upwards, I LOVE being able to load all the audio tracks into RAM, instead of having them stream from disk. 1. it saves your hard drive from earlier failure, and 2, when you press spacebar (play), it plays IMMEDIATELY. Before, and trodden can attest to this, you would press play, and if you had lots of tracks and edits, you could wait as much as 9 seconds before it would play back. Screw that!

And also, CLIP GAIN. You finally have the Nuendo-like clip volume right on the region, now called "clip". Yes. Saves a ton of time when editing vocals or outrageously dynamic stuff, without resorting to compression nor other destructive editing techniques.

As to having two versions of ProTools on one iLok, I have 9 and 10 on my two iLoks (both regular and HD versions.) This guarantees that if I needed to run version 9 on another system, I just bring my iLok and Presto! I have all the 9HD or 10HD features.

You cannot however have older versions than 11 and 10 currently, unless you own more than one system, because they do have you surrender your old licenses if you are upgrading.

Cheers

Indeed, I forgot about those features... though the disk cache I thought was an HD only feature? Clip gain would be useful I admit, but for my purposes I'm not ready to move on yet.

I haven't had to "save as" to an older format to open sessions created in 9 on the 7.1 system, I think they only introduce this requirement every so many versions?

[trodden]

The problem with PT10 and PT11 is that your sessions are no longer straight compatible to your older system, if you had a session you started on 6.4 or whatever you'll have to open it in PT11, then save as PT11 format?then if you want to work again on the old system, open it in PT11 then save back as the older format again. At least that's the way I understand it, anyone care to correct me?

For that reason I'm still on PT9, because I do a lot of work on an old G5 based HD system running 7.1, it would just make my life more difficult at the moment, and I haven't felt the need for any of PT10/PT11s new features (of which I could not name any, except for the PT11 being a rewrite and not supporting RTAS?which also means I might run into plugin issues).

If you are planning on running the Mix Plus system for the forseeable future and just want a portable system, it might be less hassle just to put PT9 on a laptop for now until you're ready to put the Mix Plus out of its misery (I believe you can buy PT11 and download the PT9 stuff and get a license key from Avid for pretty much any older version, if you can't find a PT9 license for sale).

I go back and forth between 10/11 and my 6.4 rig without any hassle with the Save As function. So I'm not sure if I'm missing something?