I'm buying my first tape machine. Convince me not to.

[timh]

I've obsessed over tape for the past six years. Now I've come to the point where I have the money to buy one, BUT it's a guessing game with tape machines when you're not spending +10k. So is there any reason I should spend my money on converters that I know are going to be a safe bet? What are my options for 16 tracks of conversion for under 2k? The digital market doesn't really make sense to me. I hate dealing with ADAT and all that other shit. Why can't I have 16 or 24 analog ins and 16 or 24 analog outs? Why complicate it?

[hogfish]

You can buy 2 Apogee Ensembles for under 2k. Plays nice with a Mac and the newer versions of PT. What kind of tape deck are you looking to buy? Like anything old, or "vintage" you are always taking a risk. Especially at bargain basement prices. Is this your first tape deck? Price in all the stuff you need to maintain it, like MRL tape, an oscilloscope, manuals and documentation, a de-magnetizing block, materials to keep the heads and rollers clean, a soldering iron, time, and patience........

[timh]

I'm in the middle of a deal with a 16-track MX-70. It is my first tape machine. I also build my own Preamps (CAPI's) so I'm handy with a soldering iron, but I don't know that much. It's a long story, but the pinch roller disintegrated, so he needs to get a new one in order to test the channels. I'm thinking of depositing the money for a new pinch roller in order to test the channels before I buy it. Good idea?

[permanent hearing damage]

As the owner of three tape machines that have been gathering dust these last few years, I gotta say there are better ways to spend your money. Digital has come a very long way. I understand the appeal, but tape isn't cheap and will only eat into the limited budgets most of us work within and maintenance is a pain in the ass and costly. I still think tape is a lot more forgiving with low end gear, but those $s can get you a lot further sonically buying mics, nice converters or pres.

[Jim Williams]

Got tape?
Got MRL?
Got scope?
Got spares?
Got support?
Got skills?

Notalgia ain't what it used to be.

[kslight]

I really like using some tape machines, but the machines that I like for the most part people qualify as "lo-fi" and are not high end decks?talking Tascam 388 and 688 are the only tape machines I bother to keep. Why? Because they are self-contained (no rats nest of wiring), relatively easy to maintain, don't take up a ton of space, easy/fun to use, and are cheap to operate (tape costs).

At one point on a whim I bought a Tascam MS16, 1" 16 track, without thinking. The thing was huge (for my tiny space), expensive to run (1" tape is not cheap), needed work that I am not qualified to provide (no competent reel to reel technicians in the area either), still not a high-end deck?I traded it off the moment someone made an offer on it?

The studio I go to a lot has an MCI 24 track 2" machine, which I use whenever I can. But the owner also lets us use "house tape" versus having to buy a reel, and I transfer the tracks to Pro Tools when we are done. If I had to buy 2" reels of my own I'd probably not bother for my own personal work, and not record bands to tape unless they are buying it. I would not want one of these machines in my home studio.

I'd say?the expenses can add up quite a bit on a reel to reel, just getting it running after buying?and of course keeping it running. The machine worth buying, if you are dead set on buying one?I have always said is the one that is available locally, cheap, is verifiably working 100%, and has parts available. If you buy that machine with the intention to make money off of its use (as opposed to personal use), then it would be advisable to seek out 2 more machines (one always ready backup, and one parts machine). There are a lot of machines on the market that have gone unused for an extended period of time, with questionable functionality, and unless the deck you buy has been restored by a pro?is likely to need several hundred bucks put into it before you would be able to even think about using it.



I personally don't think that buying a new pinch roller to test out the machine is a solid plan. The seller should buy it, if anything. What if you buy it and the machine is crap? Are you willing to walk away from the deal or will you still buy the machine?



As far as good/cheap conversion goes, Alesis HD24XR can be had in your budget, 24 tracks at up to 48khz, or 12 tracks at 96khz. Will record either standalone (just like a tape machine) or use ADAT to pump the tracks into your computer (the way I use it).

[The Scum]

One argument against older tape machines: search these and other forums for people who just got a deal on a tape machine, but need just one little repair for it to be 100% functional. They come in and ask for help (or for someone to scan the service manual). And the response is crickets. If you get an older machine, you're going to want to become self sufficient on keeping it running...or put your tech's kids through school.

The one exception might be Steve Sadler's MCI service subscription program.

I find troubleshooting tape machines over the internet to be pretty clumsy at best. There are so many electronic and mechanical things that interact in one, and you almost have to have it in your lap to get a sense of what's going on.

If it doesn't include a complete service manual (and you can't easily find one online), walk away.

Almost any machine is going to be 20+ years old. It may have been in use all that time, and will need some routine maintenance to keep it running. And if it's been sitting unused in those years, it's no better guarantee that it works. Rubber rollers and belts can decay, mice can move in. Replacement parts may be impossible to come by, short of buying a second machine to salvage.

There's a local studio that specializes in 2" tracking. The owner has something like 5 machines around. At any given time, 2 of them will be mostly functional. I'd much rather pay his day rate when I need that sound, than have to manage a small herd of washing machines.

Tape is also rather pricy. A reel of 1" runs something like $150, and gives you about 30 minutes of 15 IPS recording.

In contrast, a $150 hard drive is going to be so large that you could store a significant portion of your career on it.

[timh]

I've seen a ton of used tape around for cheap. Some brand new 2" reels for like $40. That doesn't seem like that much. Also, I'm a college student that doesn't really care about making a ton of money. It's mostly just for the experience.

[kslight]

I've seen a ton of used tape around for cheap. Some brand new 2" reels for like $40. That doesn't seem like that much. Also, I'm a college student that doesn't really care about making a ton of money. It's mostly just for the experience.

Brand new (mostly likely NOS) 2" tape for $40 I'd be weary of?I don't think anyone would sell a reel of 2" for $40 if they thought it was any good?new tape is almost 10x that? http://www.fullcompass.com/product/344595.html The MX70 you are talking about is a 1" machine anyway, is it not? Much less common to find laying around... Even if the tape is sealed, it could be as good as garbage, I have had NOS reels shed like crazy on me, its a gamble, and not worth the hassle of gumming up your machine or the reel going bad while working on a project, if it even works at all.

If you are a college student and just looking for the experience of working with tape then I would highly suggest finding a local studio with a tape machine that you can use (work in exchange for time?) rather than dumping a ton of money into a potentially heartbreaking purchase.

[Snarl 12/8]

It's mostly just for the experience.

Experience in Pro Tools is probably a better time investment, if you're considering this (or associated fields) as a career.

Edit: This is coming from someone who just bought a tape deck and is waiting for an analog mixer to come Tuesday so he can use it.

[floid]

honestly, if you're just looking to get your feet wet, a sixteen track deck that already has issues is probably more like a sinking of the titanic level of moisture. find a 1/2" 4 or 8 track that you know works and play with it some to see if you even like the workflow - because it can require a very different headspace than a DAW or SIB, which is the background i'm going to assume you're coming from.

[timh]

It's mostly just for the experience.

Experience in Pro Tools is probably a better time investment, if you're considering this (or associated fields) as a career.

Edit: This is coming from someone who just bought a tape deck and is waiting for an analog mixer to come Tuesday so he can use it.

I always want to be recording, but I'm going to school for electrical engineering so I can build gear for a living. I don't think I'll be recording as a career.

What kind of deck did you get?

[j.harv]

You know what...just go for it. There are a lot of nay sayers. If its something you feel like doing, do it! Don't let others experiences and "knowledge" dissuade you.
I bought a Tascam 388. I didn't even plug the the thing in when I got to the sellers place. I was excited and I REALLY wanted one.
Got it home, didn't work properly. Opened it up,put on a new belt and it works. A few gremlins pop up every once and a while but I've had it for 4 yrs now and Im still using it with no problems.It sounds great, and I love working with it.New tape is readily available and not too expensive. I can honestly say if someone came to my door and told me they would give me the latest pro tools rig if I got rid of the 388, I would tel them to take a hike. This is the recording medium I love to work with. It's simple,easy,sounds great to my ears and I can focus on the music instead of deciding on what plug in I want to use. And I also like working with 8 tracks.It makes me think more about how to group certain things together and I like that.
Go get your tape machine! Yes....be prepared for fixing things,which is also a great learning experience.I stripped my 388 down to the frame work,broke out the soldering iron on a few occasions all with a little help from the ol' internet.Lots of info if you like to fix things.
Just do some research on the actuall model you're thinking about getting to see if there are available parts.

[Snarl 12/8]

It's mostly just for the experience.

Experience in Pro Tools is probably a better time investment, if you're considering this (or associated fields) as a career.

Edit: This is coming from someone who just bought a tape deck and is waiting for an analog mixer to come Tuesday so he can use it.

I always want to be recording, but I'm going to school for electrical engineering so I can build gear for a living. I don't think I'll be recording as a career.

What kind of deck did you get?

Fostex R8. I cut my teeth on a fostex 80, in the 80's, so "bring on the limitations," I say.
Also not doing this as a career.

(spell check changes fostex to "fisted". Glad I caught that.)

[Snarl 12/8]

It's mostly just for the experience.

Experience in Pro Tools is probably a better time investment, if you're considering this (or associated fields) as a career.

Edit: This is coming from someone who just bought a tape deck and is waiting for an analog mixer to come Tuesday so he can use it.

I always want to be recording, but I'm going to school for electrical engineering so I can build gear for a living. I don't think I'll be recording as a career.

What kind of deck did you get?

Fostex R8. I cut my teeth on a fostex 80, in the 80's, so "bring on the limitations," I say.
Also not doing this as a career.

(spell check changes fostex to "fisted". Glad I caught that.)