Looking for opinions on digital mixers...

Sammigz · Post by **Sammigz** » Fri Jun 13, 2014 6:40 am

I am getting ready to make a big upgrade to my mixer in the next few months. Budgeting about 2-3000 for a 16 or 24 track mixer.

I was very interested in the Presonus StudioLive 16 or 24 track AI mixers, but have heard their fans could be annoyingly loud when tracking and monitoring in the same room. Which i do mostly because it is a home studio.

SO before jumping on it and putting up with that, I thought id ask opinions if anyone has any suggestions on boards that might be more worth it. Dropping 2000-3000 on a board i might not be 100% happy with is something id like to NOT do lol.

Thanks in advance

wren · Post by **wren** » Fri Jun 13, 2014 9:56 am

I don't know much about your workflow or anything like that so maybe take this with a grain of salt, but: if I were you and I was going to be using this mixer strictly for recording and never as a live mixer, I'd pick something in the Midas Venice F series (well within your price range) over a Studiolive any day of the week.

(Important note: I've used Studiolives many many times, in both live and recording situations. I've never used a Midas Venice F.)

The Studiolive sounds OK, but not great. I'd even go so far as to say that it doesn't sound very good. Workflow-wise it has some of the advantages that most digital boards have (dynamics on every channel, graphic EQs on various outputs, a few effect-y FX), but it has some really serious disadvantages as well (no ability to soft-patch practically ANYTHING, no motorized faders, no digitally recallable preamps, very limited routing and soft-insert options, no digital snake options...the list goes on). All of the positives aren't things you'd really need in a studio situation, and many of the negatives are things that could potentially be a pain in your ass (although admittedly more of a pain in your ass in a live situation). Oh, and their fans are kinda loud.

I've used many Studiolives, and if I had 3 grand to spend on a 16- or 24-channel console for studio or live the Studiolive would be at the very bottom of my list. If I were using it strictly for recording, I'd go for the Midas Venice F series. If I was planning on using it for recording and FOH, I'd have to think pretty seriously about the Allen & Heath Qu series vs. the Soundcraft Si Expression series.

JWL · Post by **JWL** » Fri Jun 13, 2014 5:06 pm

I can't believe I'm saying this, but I'd look closely at the Behringer X32 series.

(Did I really just recommend Behringer?

)

Nick Sevilla · Post by **Nick Sevilla** » Fri Jun 13, 2014 7:22 pm

Yep, for cheapo digital mixers, the Behringer X32 fits the bill.

Now, if you have a bit more dough, get the Sony DMXR-100. The thing rocks.

Cheers

jhharvest · Post by **jhharvest** » Sat Jun 14, 2014 3:39 am

For a cheap digital desk I'd still pick up a Yamaha 01V96. It's nothing spectacular but it works.

Scodiddly · Post by **Scodiddly** » Sat Jun 14, 2014 3:22 pm

The new Allen & Heath Qu series is pretty nice. My brother just bought one partially to deal with live shows, and partially as a multichannel preamp/interface for recording. He loves it.

Snarl 12/8 · Post by **Snarl 12/8** » Sun Jun 15, 2014 2:33 am

I'll put in a plug for the Ramsa DA7. I'm trying to sell mine (can't even get $400 for it), but I still think it's a hell of a lot of mixer for the money. The big dealbreaker for me was latency. I couldn't do parallel compression with an analog compressor with it, but aside from that I feel like paired with my Tascam mx2424 I achieved something like an analog workflow while retaining digital convenience and sound clarity.

I dunno, seems like a mixed review, but if you're set on digital you might want to look at how the Ramsa compares to the Studiolive and then compare the prices.

Sammigz · Post by **Sammigz** » Sun Jun 15, 2014 10:54 am

Nick Sevilla wrote:Yep, for cheapo digital mixers, the Behringer X32 fits the bill.

Now, if you have a bit more dough, get the Sony DMXR-100. The thing rocks.

Cheers

Thanks for the tip on the R100... I'm absolutely looking more into them and saving up a little more for it IF I can get one.
Looks amazing

farview · Post by **farview** » Sun Jun 15, 2014 12:42 pm

I had a Behringer X32 for a while, used it both for live and studio, it worked great. It also has the option to get personal monitor controls. Using ethernet cable, you string these controls boards around and each person gets to mix their own headphone mix from a 16 channel mixer of their own. It's like the aviom units, but less expensive and integrated into the system.

I was also doing live musical theater with it and the scene memory was awesome. I also ran sound effects and background music from a laptop firewired to it.

For the money, I was really impressed.

tjcasey1 · Post by **tjcasey1** » Mon Jun 16, 2014 6:31 am

My Presonus Studiolive mixer doesn't have a fan. The new ones do, and if it's making a lot of noise, contact tech support. They're really good.

I use a 16-4-2 and my buddy, who runs a full-time commercial studio, uses a 24-4-2. Both of us are very happy and have very good ears.

These mixers sound great and are rock solid. It has simplified my setup (no more interface and wires).

I had a Behringer, but it crapped out after a year.

I've been using my Studiolive for over three years now. I recorded 36 episodes of a live music show with it. If you do a quick search on YouTube for "Transmission Hour", you can hear examples of this board in operation.

"I've used many Studiolives, and if I had 3 grand to spend on a 16- or 24-channel console for studio or live the Studiolive would be at the very bottom of my list."

Well, everyone is entitled to their opinion. But for a number of years this has been a very popular line of boards for a good reason. And the 16-channel is only 2 grand.

I've never needed motorized faders. I don't have that much money to burn.

(PS My setup has a good deal of fan/HD noise. I isolate the recording mic by putting one of those curved acoustic foam contraptions between the back of the mic and the area where the noises come from. It helps. Plus, getting right up on the mic improves the signal-to-environmental noise ratio more than anything else can. My recordings sound very, very good.)

Sammigz · Post by **Sammigz** » Mon Jun 16, 2014 8:22 am

Ok this is going to sound like a total noob question.... So have mercy.

What is the difference between motorized faders and non-motorized (manual?) faders.

Im assuming, if I set automation on a track and listen back the fader will not move with my set automation?... But you know what happens when you assume

wren · Post by **wren** » Mon Jun 16, 2014 10:42 am

Sammy0712 wrote:Ok this is going to sound like a total noob question.... So have mercy.

What is the difference between motorized faders and non-motorized (manual?) faders.

Im assuming, if I set automation on a track and listen back the fader will not move with my set automation?... But you know what happens when you assume

Short answer: you are correct that a non-motorized fader would not move and a motorized fader would, yes. But it's very important to note that according to my quick googling (I wasn't 100% sure, so I checked), the Studiolive's faders CANNOT be used as a control surface for a DAW. In other words, you can't use the Studiolive's faders to change the levels or set automation in any recording program. It's just an interface, not a control surface at all. So motorized faders or no, you can't use a Studiolive to set or adjust the volume or pan or whatever else in your DAW - you need a mouse or a different control surface for that.

Again, according to my very quick googling and skimming: the Soundcraft doesn't look like it can act as a control surface either, or if it can Soundcraft doesn't seem to advertise it. There seem to be some very mixed results using the Behringer as a control surface - theoretically it can be used as one, but there's a lot of "in an upcoming firmware update" talk floating around the Behringer forums. The Allen and Heath Qu series can act as a control surface, and A&H advertise that fact and even offer a quick-start pdf on the subject: here. So with that in mind, I take what I said in my first post back: that puts the Qu series head and shoulders over the Si Expression series for a combination of recording and live, no question.

Back to motorized faders...in a more practical sense, if you save a scene on a console with motorized faders, do something else with the console, then recall that previously saved scene, the faders will move back to their original positions. If the console can be used as a control surface, the same rules apply - and believe me, using some kind of control surface without motorized faders absolutely sucks. You'd be 10x faster just using your mouse most of the time.

Motorized faders also allow for things like using the faders as the means of adjustment for a graphic EQ (within the mixer itself - I wouldn't count on the faders being able to adjust a plugin graphic EQ in the same way), and multiple layers that you can switch between (all your channels on one layer, aux/subgroups/DCAs on the next layer, etc.).

And for studio applications, digitally recallable preamps would be a concern in my mind too. The Studiolive does not have digitally recallable preamps. If you save a scene on a Studiolive, set it up for something else (say, mixing vs. tracking), then recall your scene, the scene is basically useless unless all your gains are set exactly where they were before or you wrote down where they all were before (which in my mind defeats the purpose of having a digital board in the first place).

Sammigz · Post by **Sammigz** » Mon Jun 16, 2014 11:59 am

Wow thank you! Didnt realize all of that. Definitely helps with my decision.

Seems really stupid they wouldn't make the StudioLive boards interact seemlessly with the Studio One software. WTH?

Well I know I absolutetly want motorized faders. I KNOW I want at least 24 channels. And I would LIKE to have seperate EQ knobs for each channel (not picky on that one). And I do want to use it with my software (Studio One) as a controller also.
Asking too much?

Now time to narrow it down and make a decision!

I am still really interested in this DMX R100 Sony board on Ebay. Just cant find a damn thing on it and dont trust it without knowing...

Sammigz · Post by **Sammigz** » Mon Jun 16, 2014 2:37 pm

OK.... so my narrowed down choices so far are...

1. Midas Venice F24: Anyone know if this has motorized faders? Or any use with it?

2. Allen and Heath Qu24 (if i can save enough)

3. Tascam DM-3200: Really like the looks of this board, but it looks like its only 16 channels (or inputs)?

Im also considering going for more quality and less inputs (16 minimum). Something like the Allen and Heath Qu16.
But i would love having the peace of mind with 24 inputs JUST IN CASE.

SUCH A TOUGH DECISION

farview · Post by **farview** » Mon Jun 16, 2014 5:00 pm

The sony board is good, but older.

Motorized faders also allow the board to use layers. Like 32 channels on 16 faders. Which also gives the board other possibilities like sends on faders, which is when you can build monitor and headphone mixes with the faders instead of dealing with the aux knobs.

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Looking for opinions on digital mixers...

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