Easing into a patch bay for not a lot of $$$

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Snarl 12/8
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Easing into a patch bay for not a lot of $$$

Post by Snarl 12/8 » Tue Aug 12, 2014 11:40 pm

Hey People,

I've been recording for more than half my life (and I'm super old) and I've never used a patch bay. But I finally feel like it's time. I've gone back to analog 8-track, so I don't have a million options in the computer anymore, but I've got a bunch of compressors I like, a few effects boxes, and a couple mixers that I'd like to be able to use one way when tracking and another when mixing without a whole bunch of crawling around and head scratching.

But, it seems like with what I want to do, it'd be about $1000 to get a patch bay into the mix, or maybe half that. I dunno. So, what's the smart way to invest, say $250 into the patchbay lifestyle in a way where I can expand later and/or at least not need to redo everything later when I realize I want it done right? I'm not afraid of a little soldering, although it is probably afraid of me.

Things I'd want on the bay would be the insert points on my 16 channel mixer and my compressors and effects. I'm not sure I really need the 8 track i/o patchable, since my mixer has pretty clever routing in that regard. I think the biggie would be being able to move compressors and effects from inserts to aux sends and returns and back easily. I'm becoming a total slut for parallel compression at mixdown, but I still like it on channels when tracking.

Thanks,

ck
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Post by vvv » Wed Aug 13, 2014 4:22 am

I'm older than you, so I'll tellya my cheap-arse and simplistic approach.

I bought two un-balanced (TS) Fostex 3013 bays (16 sets of jacks each), used, for less than US$30 each. I keep 'em normalled, the the bottom side as ins, the top as outs.

Every piece of outboard I have is wired thru them, at least the outs; I use a 8-channel snake for XLR ins on my better pre's.

I hadda couple (from my Alesis 1222 and Tascam 238 days) Hosa snakes, one that I hadda re-jack with 1/4" on one side, and I recently bought a couple more used snakes.

For everything not "on the snake" I use cords I made from guitar cords, to which I soldered 1/4" jacks. I also have some short Mogami/Neutrick patch cords I bought used. One or two pieces, The Brick and I think the Twinfinity, I wired a XLR cable to TS for its outs.

I have some pads I leave plugged in, as well as the outboard. I take the outs at then of whatever chain and patch 'em into my soundcard (Maudio Delta 44) breakout box.

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Post by digitaldrummer » Wed Aug 13, 2014 8:06 am

I've got a UA Apollo 16. I have 2 Behringer (they work fine...) 1/4" patch bays. all the ins and outs go from the DB25 to 1/4 via snakes. I then have my 500 series racks permanently patched in. the "ins" are configured half normalled so when I don't have patch cables in the jacks, the preamps go through to the Apollo's inputs.

if I want to patch in some outboard, I plug into whatever channel I want and it routes to the input instead. If i choose the same # "output" then I can use it as a hardware insert in Pro Tools.

I have an ART 16-port XLR patchbay in front of the 500-series preamps (so I rarely have to go behind the racks).

XLR patchbay -- $79 http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/P16/
1/4 patchbay -- $80 http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/PX3000/
TRS snake -- varies

you must have a lot of patch points if its going to run $1000?

and btw, If you look around you can find snakes for less than the cost of DIY via Redco or others. I'm using Hosa snakes - they are short and I never move them. again they work and sound just fine.

Mike
Last edited by digitaldrummer on Thu Aug 14, 2014 11:42 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Post by drumsound » Wed Aug 13, 2014 11:34 am

The Neutrik 1/4 TRS bays are pretty cool. We had 3 or 4 of them at my old place. The cards for each I/O can be configured to be Normaled, Half normaled or not normaled. There's a really good sheet that comes with them to help you figure out what you need for each piece of gear.

http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/NYSPP/

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Post by Snarl 12/8 » Wed Aug 13, 2014 12:16 pm

OK. I just ordered the neutrik patchbay (cheaper from Parts-express via the Zon), 24 17" trs cables and 6 3' TRS cables (just in case I don't have enough for the back. I'll see where this gets me in a couple days.
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Post by Gregg Juke » Wed Aug 13, 2014 12:28 pm

Yeah, the guys above covered it, but you don't need to spend a lot of money to get into some patchbays, unless you're married to the idea of TT, I guess. I've got a ton of 1/4 bays I bought right here on the TOMB ("a ton;" well, maybe 5? plus I had a couple already), and an XLR panel, and I bought all of that for maybe $100 over your hoped-for outlay ($350 or so, for everything).

One really important side-note though-- Please, PLEASE for the love of All that is Holy, change that avatar!!!! :shock:

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Post by vxboogie » Wed Aug 13, 2014 1:51 pm

Gregg Juke wrote:One really important side-note though-- Please, PLEASE for the love of All that is Holy, change that avatar!!!! :shock:

GJ
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Post by vvv » Wed Aug 13, 2014 4:59 pm

I think that's Snarl's close friend, Woody.

:lol:

Because it cant have anything to do with Christ Bearer, right?

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Post by Shane Michael Rose » Wed Aug 13, 2014 5:04 pm

go TT and never look back. in the long run it is cheaper.

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Post by floid » Wed Aug 13, 2014 8:01 pm

i understand the appeal of TT, i lucked across some free TT plugs and flip covered jacks and used them on the ins and outs of some of my more ruggedly built homebrew efforts. but neutrik patchbays seem nice and durable for not much moola, the solid tactile pleasure of MAKING A CONNECTION that's miles from the slippery feel of the tascam unit i use for my consumer grade connects.
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Post by vxboogie » Thu Aug 14, 2014 11:20 am

Snarl 12/8 wrote:OK. I just ordered the neutrik patchbay (cheaper from Parts-express via the Zon), 24 17" trs cables and 6 3' TRS cables (just in case I don't have enough for the back. I'll see where this gets me in a couple days.
Didn't catch this quick enough, but I have one of the Neutrik ones that's never been used. Let me know if you ever expand your patchbay.
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Post by Snarl 12/8 » Thu Aug 14, 2014 3:23 pm

vxboogie wrote:
Snarl 12/8 wrote:OK. I just ordered the neutrik patchbay (cheaper from Parts-express via the Zon), 24 17" trs cables and 6 3' TRS cables (just in case I don't have enough for the back. I'll see where this gets me in a couple days.
Didn't catch this quick enough, but I have one of the Neutrik ones that's never been used. Let me know if you ever expand your patchbay.
I was just sitting here thinking I shoulda ordered two. I tossed and turned last night trying to imagine how I'd divvy up the 24 i/o (or 48 patch points, or whatever it's called.)

How do people hook up their inserts to a patch bay? Is the top the out from the board and then the bottom is back in? And you "normal" it so that with nothing plugged in, it acts like nothing is plugged in? So, on a 16 channel board that's two thirds of my patchbay right there. Then I've got the ins and outs of my 4 dual mono compressors, my reverbs (2 stereo, one mono), my 2 "reamps" and guitar effects chains, and the aux ins and outs of the board, that gets me well into another patch bay, right? Or am I an idiot again.
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Post by vxboogie » Thu Aug 14, 2014 4:42 pm

Snarl 12/8 wrote:
vxboogie wrote:
Snarl 12/8 wrote:OK. I just ordered the neutrik patchbay (cheaper from Parts-express via the Zon), 24 17" trs cables and 6 3' TRS cables (just in case I don't have enough for the back. I'll see where this gets me in a couple days.
Didn't catch this quick enough, but I have one of the Neutrik ones that's never been used. Let me know if you ever expand your patchbay.
I was just sitting here thinking I shoulda ordered two.
$50 if you want it.
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Post by vvv » Thu Aug 14, 2014 5:37 pm

Wait, ...


... what happened to G-Juke's fave avatard-thingie?

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Post by floid » Thu Aug 14, 2014 5:52 pm

Normaling inserts like you describe will work well. if any of your compressors have sidechain inserts, half- normal them on a card and put the output on it's own card. right now i've got both outputs of my dual mono sidechained units on a single de-normalled card to save space but the over-under output thing causes enough confusion i think i'm gonna redo it and live with the wasted jack.

sounds like you need a bay for your mixer and another for outboard.

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