"Digital interference" within a plugin need advice

Recording Techniques, People Skills, Gear, Recording Spaces, Computers, and DIY

Moderators: drumsound, tomb

kslight
moves faders with mind
Posts: 2689
Joined: Tue Oct 13, 2009 7:40 pm

"Digital interference" within a plugin need advice

Post by kslight » Wed Jun 03, 2015 9:56 am

So I've been going on circles with IK Multimedia over their EQ73 plugin, which functions within the T Racks CS environment (alongside various other plugins of theirs I own). For reference I am using PT12 (not HD) on Mac OS 10.8.5, I had also tried it under PT11 before I upgraded and the same thing happened.

The plugin is used multiple times within the same session as an insert. Different settings. No outside inputs enabled (it is only processing already recorded audio). 24/96khz session. I have exported out and into a new session, and experience the same problems in multiple different sessions.

I have tried repairing disk permissions, running off of different drives, resetting NVRAM, I do not have wifi enabled, and the problem occurs using my main interface (Profire Lightbridge) and the builtin audio. I have ran memtest and all of my memory passes without errors. I have reinstalled T Racks. This is a genuine Mac Pro, not a hackintosh, not a laptop. This occurs even when there is no wave form present in the daw channel. This is not a new problem that I can tie to any one change in my computer (I haven't changed much of anything, besides the cited pro tools update), I just have recently gotten frustrated enough to take samples of it and contact IK.

The problem is that over time, one or more instances of the plugin will start creating audible glitchy noise. Sometimes this is a tone, sometimes multiple tones. Different but recognizable every time. This also shows up on the meters at its frequencies within T Racks. I have been able to record these sounds by simply routing and empty track with the plugin onto another empty track. It is faint but audible especially when you have buss compression and such happening. I have taken screenshots showing the frequencies appearing in the meters, as well a showing my settings.

Disabling and then reenabling the plugin makes the noise immediately disappear. Over time it usually comes back.

Changing the EQ frequencies and gain controls causes the noise to CHANGE, not just get louder or softer, but change tones or get more intense, etc. Pressing any of the buttons makes the problem temporarily go away also.

There is no "analog emulation" button that adds noise that I am aware of, and I have tried changing settings in the preferences.



Any ideas? Anyone with time on their hands, I believe you can download a 14 day trial. I will post samples later, I am not at home.



IK says it sounds like some sort of "digital interference" from MY system is causing th problem. They claim they cannot recreate it on their end. I am no computer dummy, but I have never heard of this occurring especially considering everything else? I use plenty of other plugins, including more by IK, and I have never ever been able to make this occur. I would like to think I'm pretty good at troubleshooting computer weirdness and hardware. But if anyone here has experienced this voodoo, I am all ears.

Thanks

User avatar
apropos of nothing
dead but not forgotten
Posts: 2192
Joined: Tue May 13, 2003 6:29 am
Location: Minneapolis, MN
Contact:

Post by apropos of nothing » Wed Jun 03, 2015 1:49 pm

Digital interference? Ha. Their crappy code can't keep up with the audio stream, and loses sync, which is what that noise is. Probably checking if it's legit too often.

Have you installed any other plug-ins recently? Possibly may be getting in a fight.

Another thing that may help is making sure you have adequate room available on both your system and data drive.

Rendering your track is a workaround. The solution is ditching IK, who are not renowned for their customer service.
...
Hmmm... Not likely, as your issue sounds different, but is your authorization all the way authorized? Could it be related to their demo noise bursts?
https://www.google.com/search?q=ik+mult ... ise+bursts

User avatar
roscoenyc
george martin
Posts: 1374
Joined: Sun Jun 03, 2007 5:56 pm
Location: NYC
Contact:

Post by roscoenyc » Wed Jun 03, 2015 1:58 pm

Shouldn't you be running Yosemite with PT 11 and 12?

kslight
moves faders with mind
Posts: 2689
Joined: Tue Oct 13, 2009 7:40 pm

Post by kslight » Wed Jun 03, 2015 2:08 pm

Yeah it sounds stupid to me too, but thought maybe, MAYBE I'm missing something.


The only plugins I have installed are about a dozen IK part of T Racks, Waves Platinum, maybe some Massey free?, Soundtoys Free, eventide free, and Pro Tools defaults. No new plugins recently, except Alter Boy free. All legit, no pirated bs.

Over 200gb free on the audio drive. Same on system. 16gb of RAM so I don't think I'm redlining it.

The sad part is I like the sound of T Racks for some things. If EQ73 wasn't glitchy I would be happy enough. I told them to give me a license for EQ81 to try and see if the same thing happens, they refused. I'm assuming they share a similar code base so it might do the same thing and I thought that was a reasonable demand considering the time I've put in going in circles and money they've already received.

If I wasn't in the middle of a project I'm not ready to render down, I would render it down.

kslight
moves faders with mind
Posts: 2689
Joined: Tue Oct 13, 2009 7:40 pm

Post by kslight » Wed Jun 03, 2015 2:20 pm

roscoenyc wrote:Shouldn't you be running Yosemite with PT 11 and 12?
Mountain Lion was still supported under 11. I literally just upgraded to 12 a week or so ago because I had a free upgrade and thought there was a slight chance it'd fix the problem. I didn't realize 12 didn't support Mountain Lion, Avid never said anything when I sent them a bug notice. Unfortunately I don't think I can update to Yosemite at this time as I think it breaks Pro Tools 10 (which I need also) and my Profire Lightbridge.

kslight
moves faders with mind
Posts: 2689
Joined: Tue Oct 13, 2009 7:40 pm

Post by kslight » Wed Jun 03, 2015 2:22 pm

It's not the same as the pre-authorization noise bursts, those are distinctly white/pink noise ish. This is actually glitchy tones.

kslight
moves faders with mind
Posts: 2689
Joined: Tue Oct 13, 2009 7:40 pm

Post by kslight » Wed Jun 03, 2015 6:17 pm

https://soundcloud.com/tapesuey/tracks

You can hear 5 examples there.

Example 5 is what happens when I actually interact with the plugin while its freaking out. The others are "static" without my help.

No eq-ing or reverb added. You may need to turn up your system to hear it. These examples are straight from "no waveform" tracks into another track, no external devices influencing it.

John Jeffers
buyin' a studio
Posts: 928
Joined: Sat Jun 07, 2003 1:16 pm
Location: Denver, CO
Contact:

Post by John Jeffers » Thu Jun 04, 2015 4:39 pm

Since you say that the problem exists whether you're using the Lightbridge or built-in audio, here's what I'd try.

Clone your 10.8 disk to another drive, boot from the clone, then upgrade the clone to 10.10 and see if the problem goes away when using built-in audio. If it doesn't, then at least you know the OS version 10.8 being unsupported for PT 12 isn't the problem.

If you're unfamiliar with cloning a boot volume on a Mac, it's relatively easy with the built-in tool (Disk Utility), or you can go get something like Carbon Copy Cloner or SuperDuper that makes it even easier.

Or, just quit using the crappy plugin. That'd be a hell of a lot less effort.

kslight
moves faders with mind
Posts: 2689
Joined: Tue Oct 13, 2009 7:40 pm

Post by kslight » Thu Jun 04, 2015 5:45 pm

John Jeffers wrote:Since you say that the problem exists whether you're using the Lightbridge or built-in audio, here's what I'd try.

Clone your 10.8 disk to another drive, boot from the clone, then upgrade the clone to 10.10 and see if the problem goes away when using built-in audio. If it doesn't, then at least you know the OS version 10.8 being unsupported for PT 12 isn't the problem.

If you're unfamiliar with cloning a boot volume on a Mac, it's relatively easy with the built-in tool (Disk Utility), or you can go get something like Carbon Copy Cloner or SuperDuper that makes it even easier.

Or, just quit using the crappy plugin. That'd be a hell of a lot less effort.
As stated, the problem existed using PT11 also. And PT9, which I didn't state because I can't go back that far again anyway since Avid took my license when I upgraded to 11.



Its helpful to suggest I write off the plugin entirely, why didn't I think of that? :roll:

User avatar
apropos of nothing
dead but not forgotten
Posts: 2192
Joined: Tue May 13, 2003 6:29 am
Location: Minneapolis, MN
Contact:

Post by apropos of nothing » Thu Jun 04, 2015 9:01 pm

I am really enjoying track 5. I swear to god that's what my favorite radio show sounds like fairly frequently.

If they're telling you digital interference, have you tried altering your hardware configuration? Are there dongles that might be variables? I wonder if something is competing with it for access to its copy protection security blanket. When you say Mac Pro, are you talking the recent gen? I would be surprised if IK tested their product on that, TBH; considering how many Mac Pros are in the world versus how many Macbooks and an iMacs, if it was my cost/benefit analysis...?

I like a lot of the capabilities of T-racks and other IK stuff. I will never purchase one of their products because of feeling so arm-twisted by a demo, and then watching how they deal with their customers concerns in general.

What was the last time the product worked reliably? Was it on this machine? I kinda think their product might be getting in a fight with your snazzy video card(s).

edit: Intel Xeons are still x86 processors which means that however obscured there are still IRQs, which can still be hogged, albeit with some duress.

John Jeffers
buyin' a studio
Posts: 928
Joined: Sat Jun 07, 2003 1:16 pm
Location: Denver, CO
Contact:

Post by John Jeffers » Thu Jun 04, 2015 10:06 pm

kslight wrote:Its helpful to suggest I write off the plugin entirely, why didn't I think of that? :roll:
I'm sorry I missed the detail about PT 11, but you know, I took time out of my day to attempt to help you out. Not using a broken plugin is a valid option. It's not like there aren't a hundred other EQs you could use instead. So, DBAD.

kslight
moves faders with mind
Posts: 2689
Joined: Tue Oct 13, 2009 7:40 pm

Post by kslight » Fri Jun 05, 2015 2:58 am

apropos of nothing wrote:I am really enjoying track 5. I swear to god that's what my favorite radio show sounds like fairly frequently.

If they're telling you digital interference, have you tried altering your hardware configuration? Are there dongles that might be variables? I wonder if something is competing with it for access to its copy protection security blanket. When you say Mac Pro, are you talking the recent gen? I would be surprised if IK tested their product on that, TBH; considering how many Mac Pros are in the world versus how many Macbooks and an iMacs, if it was my cost/benefit analysis...?

I like a lot of the capabilities of T-racks and other IK stuff. I will never purchase one of their products because of feeling so arm-twisted by a demo, and then watching how they deal with their customers concerns in general.

What was the last time the product worked reliably? Was it on this machine? I kinda think their product might be getting in a fight with your snazzy video card(s).

edit: Intel Xeons are still x86 processors which means that however obscured there are still IRQs, which can still be hogged, albeit with some duress.

IK doesn't use dongles, just some authentication mgr, which I have probably a dozen or so more of theirs that use the same thing without funny business. Many of which work within that same T Racks environment. Old, mid 2010 Mac Pro, nothing real fancy. Have not changed this computer hardware wise in years. 16gb memory which checks out as all good under memtest, another internal drive (checks out), an internal blu Ray burner (why not), and a TI chipset equipped FireWire card (so my sound card can run on its own buss when I use my FireWire hard drives).


The dongles connected are an ilok 2, Propellerhead ignition key, and a regular USB stick for Waves.

To my knowledge this plugin never ran without the glitches eventually appearing if I'm working long enough. It is not constant, but intermittent...so sometimes it is fine.
Last edited by kslight on Fri Jun 05, 2015 4:08 am, edited 3 times in total.

kslight
moves faders with mind
Posts: 2689
Joined: Tue Oct 13, 2009 7:40 pm

Post by kslight » Fri Jun 05, 2015 3:06 am

John Jeffers wrote:
kslight wrote:Its helpful to suggest I write off the plugin entirely, why didn't I think of that? :roll:
I'm sorry I missed the detail about PT 11, but you know, I took time out of my day to attempt to help you out. Not using a broken plugin is a valid option. It's not like there aren't a hundred other EQs you could use instead. So, DBAD.
We would never get anything done if all questions were answered with "don't use your crappy x." That's what Gearslutz is for.

Basically I'm asking two questions.

1. Is IK full of shit? Because I am not the expert at everything or anything, I acknowledge that I could possibly be missing something and I've just never heard of "digital interference" causing this type of problem, so I thought maybe someone here would be able to say one way or another.

2. Is there something else I haven't tried that could fix it? Obviously, I have already mentioned that bypassing the plugin makes it go away, and if not using it at all was the route I wanted to go, I probably would have done that. Likewise, turning off the computer entirely works too, and sometimes I'm tempted to try just turning off my speakers and mixing visually.

User avatar
apropos of nothing
dead but not forgotten
Posts: 2192
Joined: Tue May 13, 2003 6:29 am
Location: Minneapolis, MN
Contact:

Post by apropos of nothing » Fri Jun 05, 2015 6:29 am

I guess my suggestion is removing as much as possible from your session and configuration including, to the extent possible, software and hardware, most specifically I suspect your dongles.

Can you identify a common thread among session files that trigger the behavior? If you can make it reproducible that's the first step to solving it. I would see if I can stress your system, one piece at a time and see if you can reliably and reproducibly induce the behavior. That's a pain in the ass, but is your only hope if IK have washed their hands of the affair.

When I hear "digital interference" I hear "software conflicts."

kslight
moves faders with mind
Posts: 2689
Joined: Tue Oct 13, 2009 7:40 pm

Post by kslight » Fri Jun 05, 2015 10:35 am

apropos of nothing wrote:I guess my suggestion is removing as much as possible from your session and configuration including, to the extent possible, software and hardware, most specifically I suspect your dongles.

Can you identify a common thread among session files that trigger the behavior? If you can make it reproducible that's the first step to solving it. I would see if I can stress your system, one piece at a time and see if you can reliably and reproducibly induce the behavior. That's a pain in the ass, but is your only hope if IK have washed their hands of the affair.

When I hear "digital interference" I hear "software conflicts."
Well I need a minimum of two dongles connected out of three, in order to authorize waves and avid. But I can try the ignition key.

I am trying to see what I can do on my end to "not" make it happen. Right now I can open it up and make it happen every time, eventually, it just takes time to start going weird. I suspect maybe the T Racks environment itself (you can also load the plugins without the environment and it'd be like a normal plugin) but I haven't tested it enough to say for sure.

The problem with the size of sessions and intensity testing unfortunately is that I am in the middle of a film project so my sessions have 40+ tracks going on and a reasonable (though not overkill just basic mostly) amount of processing.

The best thing I can do I think is try redoing each track so it uses the version of the plugin that isn't in the T Racks environment and see if that makes a difference.

IK has not written me off completely yet, after I fired an email to the support manager things started moving again..but I'm not holding my breath.
Last edited by kslight on Fri Jun 05, 2015 6:47 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 68 guests