Guitar FX pedals in guitar recording

Recording Techniques, People Skills, Gear, Recording Spaces, Computers, and DIY

Moderators: drumsound, tomb

JES
tinnitus
Posts: 1197
Joined: Mon May 19, 2003 10:31 am
Location: Montreal, PQ
Contact:

Post by JES » Tue Jun 07, 2016 1:12 pm

Reanimating this thread as I came to the TOMB to think this question through.

I'm in a band where the guitarist uses a lot of rhythmic delays and really massive reverbs on his Strymon pedals, but they are all in front of his amp input, not part of an effects loop. As the bassist, I occasionally also use huge sounds from my H9. Both are capable of stereo out, but our sound usually is through a mono amp.

Do I have the engineer:

a. Record our amps mono and just play as usual?
b. Record our amps mono but take stereo outs from the time-based effects, which would preclude sending them through the amps?
c. Something else?

We will also take DI lines just for re-amping and the like later.

Genre is highly effected (affected?) post-rock.

User avatar
ubertar
ears didn't survive the freeze
Posts: 3753
Joined: Wed Feb 18, 2004 7:20 pm
Location: Brooklyn, NY
Contact:

Post by ubertar » Tue Jun 07, 2016 1:19 pm

Why not borrow a couple extra amps, and go stereo out through the amps? Wouldn't that be the best of both worlds?
get a hammered sound from guitar or bass! http://www.stringhammer.com
hand-made version to raise money for manufacturing... kind of like kickstarter, but you get a fully functional item now

Album!
https://paulrubenstein.bandcamp.com/album/one-eye-awake

RoyMatthews
re-cappin' neve
Posts: 778
Joined: Fri Dec 30, 2005 12:07 pm
Location: Sunnyside Queens, NY

Post by RoyMatthews » Tue Jun 07, 2016 1:28 pm

Gut reaction is talk to the engineer and see what he/she says.
If I was the engineer I'd just say "Give me your sound and I'll record it". Are you happy with what's coming out of the amp? Yes? Done. I wouldn't even bother with the guitar DI.

The best thing is to get a sound before going into the studio. It's cheaper and more efficient than dicking around afterwards. You're singer sounds like they sound. You're drummer has the snare he/she likes. The same applies to guitars.

Now, you may have some stereo ideas and that's cool. If so keep it in mind and let your engineer know that it's what you want. But if you're happy with what's coming out of the amp then that's your sound. That's you. You're in the band. Get you on the record.
"If there's one ironclad rule of pop history, it's this: The monkey types Hamlet only once."

User avatar
vvv
zen recordist
Posts: 8903
Joined: Tue May 13, 2003 8:08 am
Location: Chi
Contact:

Post by vvv » Tue Jun 07, 2016 1:32 pm

Me, I'd record my best live sound, and keep the DI's for studio majik/adjustment.
bandcamp; vlayman;
THD; Geronimo Cowboys;
blog.
I mix with olive juice.

User avatar
A.David.MacKinnon
ghost haunting audio students
Posts: 3365
Joined: Wed May 07, 2003 5:57 am
Location: Toronto
Contact:

Post by A.David.MacKinnon » Tue Jun 07, 2016 1:33 pm

JES wrote:Reanimating this thread as I came to the TOMB to think this question through.

I'm in a band where the guitarist uses a lot of rhythmic delays and really massive reverbs on his Strymon pedals, but they are all in front of his amp input, not part of an effects loop. As the bassist, I occasionally also use huge sounds from my H9. Both are capable of stereo out, but our sound usually is through a mono amp.

Do I have the engineer:

a. Record our amps mono and just play as usual?
b. Record our amps mono but take stereo outs from the time-based effects, which would preclude sending them through the amps?
c. Something else?

We will also take DI lines just for re-amping and the like later.

Genre is highly effected (affected?) post-rock.
It really depends on what else is happening in the arrangements and how many other instruments there are. For trios it's sometimes a great help to have the guitar in stereo or more (stereo plus an mono amp or a few mono amps that I can cut between for different verse/chorus tones). It gets me around the question of how to pan the instruments. I can keep the main guitar and bass up the middle and hard pan the effects.
If there are lots of other instruments happening I'm less likely to care because there won't be as much room for those stereo tracks and I might not need them as much.

Having said all of that, as a mixer there's nothing worse than having somebody deliver tracks where every source is in stereo. It means I usually end up deleting one side before panning the mono source where I want it. Otherwise everything stays stereo and effectively gets panned centre giving you a wide mono sounding record.

So yes, the big questions are what else is happening and is there a need and room for effects in stereo?

JES
tinnitus
Posts: 1197
Joined: Mon May 19, 2003 10:31 am
Location: Montreal, PQ
Contact:

Post by JES » Tue Jun 07, 2016 1:40 pm

Thanks. It's hard to tell. We're pretty good at turn-taking in arrangement. If there's a "Shimmer" reverb on my bass part, there's a clean, verbless guitar and a dry sax. Sometimes the guitar and keyboard ambiance can get a little crowded but that's it.

Stereo amps is a great idea but not sure we can find copies of our setups that are close enough.

User avatar
joninc
deaf.
Posts: 1941
Joined: Mon Jun 09, 2003 5:02 pm
Location: canada
Contact:

Post by joninc » Wed Jun 08, 2016 12:24 pm

JES wrote: Stereo amps is a great idea but not sure we can find copies of our setups that are close enough.
i think having 2 different amps is better and more interesting than having identical amps.

I used to always record duplicates of things and hard pan them but i have found that symmetry in recording actually often has the effect of feeling like mono.

so variations in tone (mics or amps) can add interest and width in stereo recordings.

it may also probably be a lot less crazy different than you think (assuming you are using 2 clean amps or 2 dirty amps etc). people get really obsessed about stereo pairs and stuff but unless you're trying to exactly replicate an orchestra or choir or something, i don't think it's actually as big a deal at all.
the new rules : there are no rules

User avatar
joninc
deaf.
Posts: 1941
Joined: Mon Jun 09, 2003 5:02 pm
Location: canada
Contact:

Post by joninc » Wed Jun 08, 2016 12:29 pm

one other idea/thought:

the question of "how wet/how much reverb is TOO much reverb" is a legit question and sometimes it's easy to go too extreme and end up with a sound that is quite washed out in the mix and not as defined as you may end up wanting it to be.

a way around that is to record 1 amp dry and 1 100% wet. Then you have the option in the mix to use different amounts in different parts of the song and it gives a lot more flexibility but you can still hear lots of effect while tracking and have it feel natural and/or as extreme as you like.

maybe even do the dry signal in mono and the effects in stereo.

for panning it can be cool to have the option to pan things apart a bit and not always have the reverb in exactly the same spot as the direct sound.
the new rules : there are no rules

User avatar
Drone
re-cappin' neve
Posts: 664
Joined: Fri Dec 18, 2009 4:01 pm
Location: Uranus

Post by Drone » Wed Jun 08, 2016 4:19 pm

How many channels do you have? I record dry DI, DI in the FX loops, and amp sounds and blend. :mrgreen:
The previous statement is from a guy who records his own, and other projects for fun. No money is made.

User avatar
Nick Sevilla
speech impediment
Posts: 4941
Joined: Mon Mar 03, 2008 1:34 pm
Location: Los Angeles California USA
Contact:

Post by Nick Sevilla » Thu Jun 09, 2016 8:11 am

Usually when a band is unsure of their sound, I do record a DI of their instruments.
Or in the extremely rarer case that the artists needs a DI recording because they will need to manipulate that dry sound later, because they need to do it this way, and there is no other easier way to accomplish whatever crazy sound they are trying to do, as a live recording.

Otherwise, I NEVER record a DI of their instruments. It is exactly the can of worms to be kept as far away as possible from the studio as possible.

Cheers
Last edited by Nick Sevilla on Thu Jun 09, 2016 6:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Realizing vibratory excursions from a paper widget.

User avatar
vvv
zen recordist
Posts: 8903
Joined: Tue May 13, 2003 8:08 am
Location: Chi
Contact:

Post by vvv » Thu Jun 09, 2016 9:20 am

To address Mr. Sevilla's point, I always try and take a DI of the bass, even when mic'ing the amp. Oftentimes that DI can give me better clarity/note definition when brought up in parallel.

I, me, never DI off the guitar for the reasons he states, unless I can't record loud and intend to re-amp later, which I believe happened twice when the band could only come in late one night for some overdubs.
bandcamp; vlayman;
THD; Geronimo Cowboys;
blog.
I mix with olive juice.

Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 18 guests