which LDC or ribbon for mono overhead drum tracking?

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nhecht
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which LDC or ribbon for mono overhead drum tracking?

Post by nhecht » Sun Sep 13, 2015 8:15 am

I've got an apogee duet with no external pre-amps and am looking to begin tracking some drums with two mics, one for the kick and one as an overhead. I currently don't own any but would like to get two that I could use in other applications beyond tracking drums, if/when I decide to expand my set up. Budget is around $800 for the two mics.

Some people recommended I get an RE-20 for the kick rather than a bass drum specific mic -- makes sense to me.

As for an overhead, an oktavamod NT1 was suggested as was the AKG 414 UBS. Seems like the different polarity patterns offered by the 414 makes it an obvious choice in terms of flexibility for future applications.

I was also considering the beyerdynamic MC834 - it came up in an old tape-op article.

Does anyone have suggestions for lesser known but quality LDCs that can be had for less money? I'm looking to buy something that will hold it's value rather than something cheap that I'll outgrow.


Thanks for your help!

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Post by kslight » Sun Sep 13, 2015 8:28 am

I don't have any experience with the "oktavamod" NT1, but the "stock" NT1 in my opinion is rather prickly sounding especially on vocals, I wouldn't recommend it.

RE20 is an interesting mic, though not sure if I would recommend it on a limited budget...I'm sure someone will disagree but I just don't love it enough to own one.

The way I see it you have more choices than maybe you are aware of.

For example, you could get a cheap multi pattern LDC like the Studio Projects B3 and use that as your mono overhead, sure. Or you could get a stereo pair and record in stereo as a blumlein pair.

Or you could get a mic combiner or mixer, and plug a kick and snare mic into one channel of your interface, and a mono overhead into the other. I would suggest something like the AKG D112 or Audix D6 on bass drum and Audix i5 or SM57 on snare... I personally like the Audix mics a lot, they are very modern and "EQed" sounding definitely, but they cut pretty well in a rock mix. I've used these to great effect in 3-4 mic setups as well as larger. AKG and Shure would be a little more traditional.

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Post by Jim Williams » Sun Sep 13, 2015 8:42 am

AKG 414 B-ULS or the TL model.
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Post by vvv » Sun Sep 13, 2015 9:28 am

I'll throw a weird suggestion out there and say a tube mic could be a good choice.

Even something inexpensive like an MXL V69ME or the CAD Trion 8000, altho' I also like the more expensive Genesis and M9 and the Groove Tube mic's - the lowly Apex 460 and its ilk are totally acceptable and apparently easily modded; many are multi-pattern with pads and filters, etc.

A M-Audio Sputnik is a more colored choice, but all will work on kick, room, vocals, everything.

I say tube because those mic's can be used in a lot of contexts, are not "bland" but used carefully can be pretty clean, and have a coolness factor - at least I think so.

If not the RE20 but you like the concept, the SM7b or the MD421 could be good.

Cheaper but similar mic's would be the Peavy 520i (rather like the SM7b), or the transformerless RE320 or MD421II, which latter two I think of as more neutral than the originals.

If you go with the large dynamic, a decent condensor could be cool - for inexpensive I like the Shure KSM27 or the Senn MK4 or AT4040, amongst others. I bet even the very cheap CAD GLX3000 or Blue Spark could get ya good results.

(BTW, a used 414 might well cost US$5-800 by itself, I think.)

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Post by LowG » Sun Sep 13, 2015 9:51 am

I use a 2 mic setup using the modded NT1 as overhead and a Peavey 520i for bass drum. I can say that the modded NT1 is a completely different mic than stock. No real sonic similarity before/after.
I don't have a ton of mics, but with the modded NT1 I also have a Groove Tubes MD1, a Cascade FatHead and a CAD M179. Of those I like the NT1 the best for drum overhead. However, all of the would be good depending on the circumstance and tone goals. One plus for the modded NT1 in my setup is that it's really good at focusing on the kit while rejecting other instrument in the room - I do mostly live band in 1 room recording. One thing to be aware with it is that it's really hot output so you have to be careful not to overload it. I have to back it away a bit more than usual to keep the sound from getting distortion.
They say the 520i is the poor man's RE20. I don't know cause I don't have an RE20, but I like this mic for bass drum. I use it on the beater side and it rejects the snare reasonably well for being so close.
I'm sure that AKG would be good from what I've read, but I've never used one.

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Post by kslight » Sun Sep 13, 2015 2:08 pm

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ECgeMLdTog0

The above is an example of drums I recorded with a small mono setup:

Kick - Audix D6
Snare Top - Audix i5
Snare Bottom - Audix D6
Overhead - Neumann TLM103

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Post by A.David.MacKinnon » Sun Sep 13, 2015 2:31 pm

Any version of the 414 is golden on lots of applications (except the ones voiced for vocals - xt I think. They have a gold grill and are brighter). People have their favourites and get pretty fetishistic about it but in my experience they're all variations of the same flavour and I'd be happy with any of them.

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Post by blungo2 » Sun Sep 13, 2015 6:24 pm

Not really within your budget, but i've had good luck with an AEA R84 as a single oh, also a Cloud JRS-34.

I don't know of any inexpensive LDCs that will hold their value, my recommendation is to save your pennies and buy a better LDC that you can use for many purposes.
An old Blue Mouse (the black kind with tranny) might fit that bill, but there are many others. Maybe an AT 4050?
The Ear Trumpet labs Edwina is a nice LDC at a fair price that i can actually recommend.

I keep hearing good things about Shinybox ribbon mics, but i've never used one.

The only mic i will use inside a kick these days is the Beyer M99.

Just my two cents...

EDIT: almost forgot, i'm currently using a 12 gauge microphone blue on snare, i've been wanting to try their red or black on OH, they're dirt cheap.

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Post by dfuruta » Sun Sep 13, 2015 9:38 pm

If you're open to small diaphragms, AT4051 is a nice mic and can be obtained for a reasonable price on the used market.

My happiest two-mic drums have been with a ribbon out front and a dynamic on the kick. I like terrible, muddy drum sounds though, so ymmv.

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Post by nhecht » Mon Sep 14, 2015 6:52 am

Lots to look into now! Thank you for all of your perspectives!

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Post by joninc » Mon Sep 14, 2015 4:25 pm

a great re20 alternative is the atm25 - much cheaper and really solid on kick (and bass amps, floor toms).

for an overhead a 414 is a great choice if you want to keep the sound crisp and full.

if you like more thumpy vintage sounds than a coles 4038 is hard to beat. many times i solo that track and it's like 90% all there with that one mic. especially good to help keep fullness of toms and snare when you won't be close micing them!
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Post by blungo2 » Mon Sep 14, 2015 5:39 pm

one of these days, i hope to wind up with a pair of 4038s...

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Post by Wagz » Mon Sep 14, 2015 7:19 pm

One good cheap ish option is ebaying an AKG solid tube.

Good tube cardioid, I'll use them as overheads fairly often. Also great on a variety of other applications.
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Post by cgarges » Mon Sep 14, 2015 8:34 pm

joninc wrote:many times i solo that track and it's like 90% all there with that one mic. especially good to help keep fullness of toms and snare when you won't be close micing them!
My sentiments, exactly.

I own four of these mics and would use eight of them almost every day if I had that many. The prices on these keep going up, so they're clearly a solid investment. The second pair that I bought two years ago is now worth what I paid for the first pair on the used market a few years farther back. I've had only one of these re-ribboned so far and that is a case where the mic has been used almost every day for the last seven years or so. A totally useful and solid investment, if you can swing it. And to my ears, there is no better single mic to capture a great drum kit sound with.

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Post by Jim Williams » Tue Sep 15, 2015 8:02 am

I've had great results over the years with a pair of transformerless 414's as overheads and an RE-20 for kick.

I never had great results using a dipole mic for overheads, I don't want to mic the ceiling.
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