Is anyone tunning pro tools without plugins??

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supafuzz
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Is anyone tunning pro tools without plugins??

Post by supafuzz » Sat Apr 22, 2017 8:20 pm

Is anyone running pro tools without plugins??
Just wondering what negative effect all the plugins I'm using have on the sound quality.

I have hd and lots of outboard so I have most everything I need for sound alteration
echo/compression/eq

Starting to think about limiting my self to 16 tracks only...
one for each channel of my console...

I like limitations....
Last edited by supafuzz on Sun Apr 23, 2017 5:52 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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vvv
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Post by vvv » Sun Apr 23, 2017 1:02 am

I use Cool Edit Pro 2.1 with a bunch of outboard.

I do print with hard-limiting on a lot of stuff and some pass-filtering; I mix with plug-in compression and reverb and/or delays on vocals and occasionally on guitars.

Other than that, I'll use EQ as necessary, and very little else, other than panning and gain-rides that I do manually. I will once in a while add distortion or chorus as a special effect ...

Alla that said, it would be a major change to not use any plugs, altho' I obviously rely on some, but I really prefer a manual approach even to cleaning up tracks, adjusting levels and fades.

But reverbs and delays - gotta have 'em.
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roscoenyc
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Post by roscoenyc » Sun Apr 23, 2017 6:04 am

At the studio I rarely use plugins.
At home just about the only ones I use are the UA plugs.

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Nick Sevilla
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Post by Nick Sevilla » Sun Apr 23, 2017 10:08 am

Question...

What is "tunning"???

Is this some new, young person's hip phrase? LOL.
Howling at the neighbors. Hoping they have more mic cables.

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Post by vvv » Sun Apr 23, 2017 10:13 am

Hmmm. I used to go running but bunged a knee. Now I just sit around and eat and drink, a/k/a, "tunning". :twisted:
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supafuzz
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oops

Post by supafuzz » Sun Apr 23, 2017 5:52 pm

running Pro Tools
Super 70 Studio.. Never tell a perfectionist that the mix is perfect!

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supafuzz
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Digital

Post by supafuzz » Sun Apr 23, 2017 5:55 pm

I'm just trying to figure out new ways of working and new ways to make things sound better.
Super 70 Studio.. Never tell a perfectionist that the mix is perfect!

http://www.super70studio.com
http://www.facebook.com/Super70Studio


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Nick Sevilla
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Re: Digital

Post by Nick Sevilla » Mon Apr 24, 2017 9:28 am

supafuzz wrote:I'm just trying to figure out new ways of working and new ways to make things sound better.
I always start with the source.
Howling at the neighbors. Hoping they have more mic cables.

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supafuzz
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Re: Digital

Post by supafuzz » Mon Apr 24, 2017 9:33 am

Nick Sevilla wrote:
supafuzz wrote:I'm just trying to figure out new ways of working and new ways to make things sound better.
I always start with the source.
Where else would you start?? lol
Super 70 Studio.. Never tell a perfectionist that the mix is perfect!

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http://www.facebook.com/Super70Studio


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supafuzz
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re-start

Post by supafuzz » Mon Apr 24, 2017 9:42 am

I started out on the wrong path here..I think the more I tune my room and the better gear I get and the deeper my ability to hear becomes...I'm battling against digital and what it does to the source...
There a part of my brain that knows it's not complete and it's getting more difficult to accept it and to try to make it sound the way i want it to. Feels like a compromise
I think that says it.
Super 70 Studio.. Never tell a perfectionist that the mix is perfect!

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http://www.facebook.com/Super70Studio


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Re: re-start

Post by Nick Sevilla » Mon Apr 24, 2017 8:59 pm

supafuzz wrote:I started out on the wrong path here..I think the more I tune my room and the better gear I get and the deeper my ability to hear becomes...I'm battling against digital and what it does to the source...
There a part of my brain that knows it's not complete and it's getting more difficult to accept it and to try to make it sound the way i want it to. Feels like a compromise
I think that says it.
Again, as I stated before: Always start at the SOURCE. The musician and the instruments. If the guitar / drum / singers voice does not sound 99.99% of the way you want to, it is always uphill and a nightmare from there.

On every single successful album I have ever done (I think I passed 200 albums at some point), this is simply true: When you have the sound at the source, everything after wards is EASY.

Literally everything else beyond that is really downhill.

We once made a record where it took longer to place the microphones in the right place, and get the preamps (Neves) to not distort, and to have, in the drums, a proper phase coherence between all mics. The drums took two entire days to record properly. Then we added electric bass DI which did not need anything (the bass player was amazing), and 4 mics on the piano, which again, we took about 4-6 hours placing microphones, recording a little, listening back, then adjusting one mic a bit, ad nauseam, until the whole trio sounded like a finished record onto 2" tape.

Once we did this, the group took just three - four days to track two takes onto 2" tape, one the keeper take, one an alternate performance just as good.

After that, we added a little reverb, and mixed it all in two days. After that, the trio came in to do final mix adjustments, which took a further day.

We printed onto an ATR 102 1/2" tape.

We used almost no compression, only some EQ on things, to help make them sit together in a simple mix. NO compression on the drums, only on a couple of the piano mics, and on the Bass DI.

This is that record:

http://www.christianjacob.com/music-timelines.html


All you really have to be able to accomplish, is being able to make a CLEAN recording.
Once you know how to do this (it is harder than it seems), then you can decide to add flavor on your end, with a different mic / preamp / processing choices.
But first, really, it is all about a clean, accurate, transparent recording.

That is where the men and the mice are truly separated. If you can make a CLEAN recording, you are 90% of the way there.
Howling at the neighbors. Hoping they have more mic cables.

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supafuzz
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2" tape

Post by supafuzz » Tue Apr 25, 2017 2:31 am

The budgets for the artists I work with are never enough to spend too much time...setting up...so I only have the luxury of doing that for my own projects.

Been thinking about switching to Radar and moving away from Pro Tools...for the simplified workflow but haven't heard Radar in person to make the sonic decision.
Or 16 track 2"
I haven't made the transition yet.
Different set of issues there but possibly closer to what I need to hear.
Super 70 Studio.. Never tell a perfectionist that the mix is perfect!

http://www.super70studio.com
http://www.facebook.com/Super70Studio


now in glorious HD3

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roscoenyc
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Post by roscoenyc » Tue Apr 25, 2017 5:29 am

I have nothing against romanticizing what you don't have but I think you have what you need to do a great job.

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Post by A.David.MacKinnon » Tue Apr 25, 2017 6:35 am

I'm with Roscoe. If you've got a board and outboard gear then by all means I'd start by mixing 100% out of the box (or as close as you can get). That's my preferred workflow and it does make a difference for me. Mixes get dialled in quicker and sound more 3D. If all the tunes have a similar set-up you can dial in the first one and then plug all the rest into the same mix template and tweak as needed.
I use a few plugs but not too many. Mostly hi or low pass eq. If the track count is too high to fit on the board I'll do an internal mix of some elements and bus them to a stereo pair.

I'm in the same boat as you concerning budgets and set-up time. It's gotta happen quick. My work around is to know my room(s) and mics really well. I do my research on the artist before the session starts so I've got a rough idea of what I'm in for. I'll have an approach in mind but if it doesn't pan out I'll change it up as quickly as I can.
I did records on tape for years and there's not a huge difference to how I work now. The biggest benefit of digital for me is editing. I track as much as possible live and prefer to make fixes by editing together multiple takes because punching in changes the nature of the bleed. It's also faster and easier on the band and momentum of the session. I worked the same way on tape but it's much much easier now.
Another thing to consider before you buy that 2" 16, if bands can't afford set-up time they won't be able to afford tape and you'll end up sudsidizing or not getting the work. I always get bands asking about recording to tape but as soon as I lay out the cost they change their minds.

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supafuzz
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thanks

Post by supafuzz » Tue Apr 25, 2017 9:08 am

Hey Roscoe... nice to hear from you..
Yeah I know I have all the stuff I need.....you know I'm just bitching about digital sound a little.

And I only mix outside the box.. I have a1970's British all discrete console and lots of outboard..

It's just that restless perfectionist drive...

Shut up and mix!!
Super 70 Studio.. Never tell a perfectionist that the mix is perfect!

http://www.super70studio.com
http://www.facebook.com/Super70Studio


now in glorious HD3

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