Fuzz/Distortion/Noise when recording Bass Direct to Reel

[markjazzbassist]

I have this issue that i've had with the Tascam 388 and now a Tascam 22-4. When i record bass direct i get this distortion or fuzz or noise (whatever you want to call it) on Bass tracks. I'm recording 0VU peak and -6VU regular. I read on a lot of forums and most people run bass to 0VU or higher. For some reason i get this "FFFFFF" with my bass. I play a 69 fender jazz with flatwounds, so i'm wondering do i have too much bass content and it's not able to take it? When i recorded with a mic on my 3340 i didn't have any issues, so maybe it's just an issue with a DI since you get more bass/transients?

I have to record bass at like -10VU which is tough because i get more tape hiss and just a weaker overall signal. I don't use noise reduction.

My questions. Is this a narrow format issue? Will upping to 1/2" 4 track or similar give me the width to record proper lows with saturation? Or is this a bass recording issue, do most people record that low on the VU?

help

[Snarl 12/8]

Post a sample.

[kslight]

Never had this problem on my 388s. Try another channel, direct box, etc? What input are you plugging into on the 388? Have you aligned the machine recently?

[markjazzbassist]

machine aligned by the best in the biz adrian pro audio. it's not channel specific, my mixer everything is fine, monitoring SOURCE on tape machine, fine, monitor PLAY head or on playback, get the "FFFFF' in with the bass. like i said not an issue with anything but bass with lots of low end (ie. not roundwounds and pick punk rock, think soul sounds of the late 60's). i play with light/medium attack, nothing crazy. The 388 does it, so does the 22-4, my 3340 didn't do it but i was just using a mic then. it's not direct box specific, just a DI box with a UTC O-10 transformer, passive, into Sony MX-20 Mixer. Level set and line out RCA to reel to reel. VU on mixer and reel both around those levels stated in the first post. Happened with a Sescom direct box i have too with a jensen transformer. Monitor off mixer and no issues.

i don't record digitally, so for a clip i will need to record into the sound card of my computer or something roughshod like that. i will try and do that this weekend and get it up here.

[floid]

Never noticed this w/ my 388, tho I too was mainly mic'ing brighter bass when it was in heavy use. Doesn't happen on my 3440.
Spitballing...
Does judicious hpf lessen it w/o sacrificing too much of yr tone?
Any track bleed associated with it?
Has the machine ever had a recap?
Does it happen with a different flavor tape/are you using the tape type it was aligned to?
Have you recorded/played a freq sweep to identify the problem freq/range?
Do you know how yr tech aligned the low end? There's a thing where, adjusting @100Hz gets things close, but it's then best to check lower down to fine tune. The 388 has a published spec of 30Hz... Right on the edge of some good dubby fundamental heavy bass.

[Gregg Juke]

And just to throw the simplest things out there-- have you tried swapping-out the cable and the bass? Or does it happen with multiple instruments?

One other thing-- Is it you playing, or others on the session? If you, have a go at an unbiased review of your technique. My good friend and bassist, God rest his soul, was a very experienced player. But when we started recording him in the studio, we kept getting this unexplained "fphaaap!" sound intermittently; it was horrendous and would ruin otherwise great takes. After some trouble-shooting and soul-searching, we found the culprit was his technique itself. Joel would rest his thumb on one of the pick-ups as a default position. Even when playing things extremely straight, he would get random "slap" sounds as he hit the strings, then returned his thumb to its roost. It was never something you'd pick-up in rehearsal or on a gig, but with a miked amp and two direct outs, well...

GJ

[markjazzbassist]

had another go at it. it's not me or the gear or anything, i played professionally for years doing the touring thing and got off the road to be with my family, done countless sessions and things, have great technique, had tendonitis so play with a light-ish touch.

i think the issue had more to do with my bass in 2 issues. 1. i prefer the neck pickup higher to get a more wooly tone and more round bottom but due to that i think it was causing some warbling 2. i tune down a half step because a lot of soul music is the flats (Eb Ab Db Bb, etc), and i like that low Eb and don't like 5 strings. that tascam only goes to 40hz and i imagine i drops off a cliff from there. at 15 IPS the issue was bad, at 7.5 the issue was a little better. After backing the pickups down a little and keeping it at 7.5 IPS it was fine.

to be honest with the music i play the bass and low end is so important i just can't get with the 15 IPS. 7.5 sounds so robust, i'll just have to live with that hiss and lack of top end.

[vvv]

This may be a dumb question - I don't do tape- but can't ya record (assuming the order works) the bass at 7.5, copy to a computer and then bring it back to do the rest at 15?

I mean, if you do drums and bass at 7.5, you could do that bounce, also. Or start with the drums at 15, copy to the computer and bring it back to tape at 7.5 and do the bass, then just transfer the bass to the computer and bring it back at 15.

I seem to recall reading about guys doing that with the drums to get fat kicks, etc.

Or if you use a click ...

Before alla that, tho', I'd be trying some compression or limiting and/or EQ on the way in at 15 ...

Also, seem to me that if backing off the pup level helped, you may be hitting the recorder's electronics or whatever pre you have too hard? Not necessarily with your playing, but mebbe just with peak levels; compression or limiting might help with that.

[markjazzbassist]

good points VVV. i don't have a compressor/limiter but that's a good idea. yeah about the level the mixer level is fine (monitoring off mixer no dist or noise or anything, clean as a whistle). so i did mess with the reel to reel input levels and that coupled with PUP height and 7.5 IPS all helped. i will need to mess with those input levels to find the sweet spot.

i don't use a computer to record so i can't do anything about the rest (funds extremely limited).

[floid]

Different results at different speeds coupled with your low freq spec and preferred tuning and tone makes it sound like you might be up against the head bump.
http://www.endino.com/graphs/
You(r tech) may be able to finesse the alignment to work better with the machine's limitations.
Or you might have success with a tilt-eq pre/de emphasis type thing.