my mixes are hurting my earballs!

[Scodiddly]

Thanks for posting a track, very helpful.

Not sure you're really *not* overcompressing - to me everything is very forward, so maybe you're just great at playing up to the limit or something.

[Snarl 12/8]

Again, thanks for all the awesome feedback ya'll.

I'm apprehensive (you know how it is) to share a WIP but below is a link to take a listen to the last mix I was doing.

Some background. Overall my recordings are pretty "mid-fi." The gear is decent quality and the room is totally untreated. I play all the instruments, at home and the performance will hardly if ever be perfect. That's fine with me. That's the way my recordings are!

The song is called “All That I Get”. The mix is a total work in progress but overall I think that these are the tracks, with the exception of vocal harmonies and some percussion. You’ll also notice the song has a coda sorta thing at the end that just falls apart into a cacophony. This is a fade out tune for sure!

I promise not to take any offense to feedback and hopefully someone can spot some potential trouble spots!

https://www.dropbox.com/s/hrp31vvxtkfg6 ... 8.mp3?dl=0

Those upper mids do sound quite "crunchy" on my computer speakers. Sounded to me like the guitar, drums and maybe even vox were contributing. Start cutting frequencies in the 500-4k range (I'm sorry, I'm kinda bad at the "guess the frequency" game) on those tracks. Maybe 3db on each track. Some of this could also be a taste thing. As in "there's no accounting for taste." One man's "crunchy" might be another guy's "in your face" or whatever. The tracks do have a nice "presence", as in you seem to have done the kinda hard to achieve thing of getting all the instruments to sound equally loud and present. If it's hurting you though, try turning them down a few db. Leave the one you really want to stand out (the vox, prolly) alone.

[Krackle]

Hi Bright..

I downloaded and put an EQ on it..parametric and surgical graphic eq..

there is a ton of hash starting at 1k or so and going all through your top end..right to the top

feels a bit sibilant and essy sometimes..not just the voices..all the brass on the drums feel this way too..hashy, the snare is sort of lost in all of this..but you are correct..Definitely fatiguing.

I added a tiny bit of low end 50 down..all the way down on the parametric
and then a couple of tiny bumps up at 90-100 on the graphic EQ
A long deep (-11db) cut through below 1k on through into above 2k lowest part of the curve at about 1K..figures
little bit of general Treble drop..

It sounds much better..much more tolerable but with these EQ'a acting like 2buss EQ's, and some big cuts you're making huge trade offs.. you're gonna have to go into your tracks and listen critically.. so much stuff going on through the early upper mids and up, up ,up..hashy.

[brightpavilions]

Bright..do you mean you find them lacking in high end content when you're monitoring through them..mixing?

Or, do you mean lacking in high end when you play a bounce on other systems..like cars, living rooms and phone buds etc..

Lacking when they transfer to a "stereo" system e.g. home audio, car, earbuds etc.

[losthighway]

I haven't actually been able to listen on anything worth examining the mix on, but it sounds like the conversation is highlighting your recording and listening environments more than anything else. Do the words small, bright and live describe where the room where the instruments were recorded?

It could be a coincidence of instruments, performances and where the mics happened to be placed, but it seems like beyond that there shouldn't be so much of a specific kind of trouble based on what you're already doing- which doesn't sound like you're doing anything obviously "wrong".

Also, I echo some other comments, your inquiry and attitude towards this is awesome. We can all learn a lot with that blend of confidence (being gutsy enough to be vulnerable) and humility (knowing there's something to learn from other people).

[kslight]

For some reason can’t find my reply to this...but basically what I said is my experience with KRK monitors is that they are overly bright and fatiguing to listen to. If your mixes sound good on these they will probably be dull elsewhere. My business partner likes his KRKs...but he has also been on tour in a huge hard rock band for 20 years so I don’t trust his ears.

I would try mixing on something else or keep in mind that the representation the KRKs give you may not be factual and you may need to accommodate for this in your mix.

So weird isn't it. I've always found mixes I do on the KRKs to be lacking in the high end!!! Some people think they're great, some people hate 'em. I can't say I love the way they sound.

If I was to replace them, I'd need a powered setup and well ... budget friendly. I just saw these on CL. Anyone know anything about 'em?

https://sfbay.craigslist.org/eby/ele/d/ ... 13294.html

Right, so while you are mixing it can sound good or bright on KRK then take it to your stereo and it will be dull, that’s my experience.

[brightpavilions]

For some reason can’t find my reply to this...but basically what I said is my experience with KRK monitors is that they are overly bright and fatiguing to listen to. If your mixes sound good on these they will probably be dull elsewhere. My business partner likes his KRKs...but he has also been on tour in a huge hard rock band for 20 years so I don’t trust his ears.

I would try mixing on something else or keep in mind that the representation the KRKs give you may not be factual and you may need to accommodate for this in your mix.

So weird isn't it. I've always found mixes I do on the KRKs to be lacking in the high end!!! Some people think they're great, some people hate 'em. I can't say I love the way they sound.

If I was to replace them, I'd need a powered setup and well ... budget friendly. I just saw these on CL. Anyone know anything about 'em?

https://sfbay.craigslist.org/eby/ele/d/ ... 13294.html

Right, so while you are mixing it can sound good or bright on KRK then take it to your stereo and it will be dull, that’s my experience.

Yep.

[brightpavilions]

I haven't actually been able to listen on anything worth examining the mix on, but it sounds like the conversation is highlighting your recording and listening environments more than anything else. Do the words small, bright and live describe where the room where the instruments were recorded?

It could be a coincidence of instruments, performances and where the mics happened to be placed, but it seems like beyond that there shouldn't be so much of a specific kind of trouble based on what you're already doing- which doesn't sound like you're doing anything obviously "wrong".

Also, I echo some other comments, your inquiry and attitude towards this is awesome. We can all learn a lot with that blend of confidence (being gutsy enough to be vulnerable) and humility (knowing there's something to learn from other people).

Small yes. Bright or live? Not necessarily. It's a small garage, with low ceilings. It's certainly a contributing factor. It's the room ferchirssakes!

But yeah I don't think I'm doing anything "wrong" per se (and thanks for saying so) more like, I'm not sure how to try and mitigate some of the undeniable flaws in the recording environment, gear etc.

I've gotten some great feedback form folks, which only further solidifies how awesome the TapeOp community is. Thanks for taking listen and offering up advice. I'm going to keep at it until I get it where I want it, and I hope to hear more if any other folks have ideas on how to help.

[brightpavilions]

Again, thanks for all the awesome feedback ya'll.

I'm apprehensive (you know how it is) to share a WIP but below is a link to take a listen to the last mix I was doing.

Some background. Overall my recordings are pretty "mid-fi." The gear is decent quality and the room is totally untreated. I play all the instruments, at home and the performance will hardly if ever be perfect. That's fine with me. That's the way my recordings are!

The song is called “All That I Get”. The mix is a total work in progress but overall I think that these are the tracks, with the exception of vocal harmonies and some percussion. You’ll also notice the song has a coda sorta thing at the end that just falls apart into a cacophony. This is a fade out tune for sure!

I promise not to take any offense to feedback and hopefully someone can spot some potential trouble spots!

https://www.dropbox.com/s/hrp31vvxtkfg6 ... 8.mp3?dl=0

Those upper mids do sound quite "crunchy" on my computer speakers. Sounded to me like the guitar, drums and maybe even vox were contributing. Start cutting frequencies in the 500-4k range (I'm sorry, I'm kinda bad at the "guess the frequency" game) on those tracks. Maybe 3db on each track. Some of this could also be a taste thing. As in "there's no accounting for taste." One man's "crunchy" might be another guy's "in your face" or whatever. The tracks do have a nice "presence", as in you seem to have done the kinda hard to achieve thing of getting all the instruments to sound equally loud and present. If it's hurting you though, try turning them down a few db. Leave the one you really want to stand out (the vox, prolly) alone.

Right on. Thanks for listening and replying.

[brightpavilions]

Hi Bright..

I downloaded and put an EQ on it..parametric and surgical graphic eq..

there is a ton of hash starting at 1k or so and going all through your top end..right to the top

feels a bit sibilant and essy sometimes..not just the voices..all the brass on the drums feel this way too..hashy, the snare is sort of lost in all of this..but you are correct..Definitely fatiguing.

I added a tiny bit of low end 50 down..all the way down on the parametric
and then a couple of tiny bumps up at 90-100 on the graphic EQ
A long deep (-11db) cut through below 1k on through into above 2k lowest part of the curve at about 1K..figures
little bit of general Treble drop..

It sounds much better..much more tolerable but with these EQ'a acting like 2buss EQ's, and some big cuts you're making huge trade offs.. you're gonna have to go into your tracks and listen critically.. so much stuff going on through the early upper mids and up, up ,up..hashy.

Bah! I replied to this and it somehow went into the ether. Thanks for taking the time to listen and fool around with it. I'm sure you didn't save it, but I'd be curious to see a screen shot of your EQ settings so I could kinda' of visualize as well as hear it. I certainly need to get into each individual track and get things right. I'm not hoping for a magic "mix fix."

I think I know what you mean by "hash." There's a single overhead on the drums and so it greatly contributes to the sound of the kit. I want to keep the toms but minimize the cymbals, particularly the open hats. I like them so sound like "shhhhh" not "tssssss." How's that for technical?! But in doing the cutting (which is mostly a LPF that lobs the entire top off to around 5k) I think I might be adding in more upper mid to an already upper mid heavy recording.

[brightpavilions]

Thanks for posting a track, very helpful.

Not sure you're really *not* overcompressing - to me everything is very forward, so maybe you're just great at playing up to the limit or something.

Hmmm. Alright, well there's compression on the vocals and bass ... maybe kick. That's it tho. Nothing on the mix overall, OH or guitars. But you might be on to some thing with "up to the limit." If everything's loud, nothing's loud ya know? Thanks for the thoughts!

[Krackle]

Hi Bright..

Im guessing at this point you want to try to repair this song? Im feeling you're happy with your performances here and want to make this work?

So, make a copy of the project..take the new copy and turn everything off on each track..eq, compressors, effects etc..Then tweak the volume balance across the tracks and listen carefully..also listen to the tracks separately..and different groupings..all drum mics, all guitars..guitars and piano with and without vocals..blah blah....

Then slap an eq on each track and sort of "make ready" each track for mixing.."pre mixing" , sorta.

Play with the EQ..and try to make the individual tracks basically tolerable..easy on the ears without killing too much original detail..You'll be pulling down curves in the 1-2K area on a lot of these..there's a case here for pulling down a long line of the highest frequencies in these tracks..from the top..down into 2-3 k..You can add 'air' later if you want it..when you're actually mixing.

I can hear that compression your voice. if you can hear compression artifacts on vocals it's a problem. I think you'll find that once you get the entire top half of your frequencies sorted out that you won't need to hit your vocals with as much compression..for sure. Your voice sits smack dab in the middle of the main problem area in this mix..

Through all this.. listen..One the most important things with EQ these days is to look away from your screen... get your eyes out of the equation...staring at that screen while EQ'ing will #%^&* you and your song up, i guarantee it.

but now that you recognize this sound or set of frequencies that 'hurt'..you should always be listening for it..they are fairly common and they digital recording seems to tickle this area..digital effects, plugins, converters..on down..Like, when you have a room that is contributing to these probe (and it is), middle of the road mics..general probs..the digital realm will be completely unforgiving in every way, in fact it'll kick back some revenge on you..that's what it's doing right now : )

Anyhow, I'm trying to stay simple here..there is so much more to say and I'm sure some of the other Folks here will key on stuff that is totally brill.

[Nick Sevilla]

Hi brightpavilions.

I have a few days off.

If you want me to give you an objective analysis of your multitrack / mixing issues, send me one of your multitracks to take a look at.

I have both PT 10 and 12. I can go track by track, and also listen to your mix so far, and tell you where you need to look.

Sometimes, reading things on TapeOp cannot really give us any idea of what is what. Also, just listening to your mix and not the original tracks, won't

Cheers.

[drumsound]

I just took a listen to the track. I think musically you've got some really great things happening. You ideas are really great fro the song.

From a technical point of view, I hear the upper mid build up. (I only listened on ear buds, I'm at home). I feel like there's a solid low end from the bass, but NOTHING else has any low mid content, but EVERYTHING else has upper mid content. Its hard to know without hearing raw tracks if this is due to the recording or the mix.

I like the idea that someone posted about a new mix where you spend a lot of time with the faders before you start adding EQ.

When I first started moderating I had a few sticky threads you might find interesting.
Everything is a Fader
viewtopic.php?t=32427&highlight=everything+fader
And Everything is an EQ
viewtopic.php?f=14&t=31607&hilit=Everything+is+an+EQ

[brightpavilions]

I just took a listen to the track. I think musically you've got some really great things happening. You ideas are really great fro the song.

From a technical point of view, I hear the upper mid build up. (I only listened on ear buds, I'm at home). I feel like there's a solid low end from the bass, but NOTHING else has any low mid content, but EVERYTHING else has upper mid content. Its hard to know without hearing raw tracks if this is due to the recording or the mix.

I like the idea that someone posted about a new mix where you spend a lot of time with the faders before you start adding EQ.

When I first started moderating I had a few sticky threads you might find interesting.
Everything is a Fader
viewtopic.php?t=32427&highlight=everything+fader
And Everything is an EQ
viewtopic.php?f=14&t=31607&hilit=Everything+is+an+EQ

Right on. Thanks for the kind words and feedback. I'm going to check out these threads.