Billing for small amounts of studio time

[vvv]

Thanx for that, very educational!

And I hope you feel better, too!

[TapeOpLarry]

If people are making $5 an hour then they are not gathering the proper information. I ask a lot of routine questions and go from there with an estimate, with the caveat that if the delivered files are quite different then we need to talk. Yes, some sessions got awry, but they usually might have an inkling beforehand. Unlike Nick's nightmare above. (PS, Yes Magnification is a really great sounding record and rocks).

[Nick Sevilla]

(PS, Yes Magnification is a really great sounding record and rocks).

Oh, thanks Larry!!!

[joninc]

If people are making $5 an hour then they are not gathering the proper information. I ask a lot of routine questions and go from there with an estimate, with the caveat that if the delivered files are quite different then we need to talk. Yes, some sessions got awry, but they usually might have an inkling beforehand.

Maybe we are talking about different things... an estimate based on an amount of time vs a flat rate not based on an amount of time.

Also I was referring to tracking a project as well and not just mixing it.

I also ask lots of questions and try to give an estimate based on how much time I think we will need to achieve the artists' goals. Usually it's x number of days to record and x number to mix. I make it clear that is a reasonable guestimate based on my experience of how long different types of things take. I also communicate that if we exceed that, it's additional time that will be billed for.

Just like if you decide to also redo your kitchen cabinets while you are replace the flooring, it's extra time and cost.

A flat rate to me implies that there is less of an associated amount of time with the cost and that's where the problem is. We all know that you can spend a half day on a song, or a week. You can spend an hour on a lead vocal or 6 hours. People have and do! Most of us probably fall somewhere in between. 2 days is an average length for me to track and mix a song.

But some artists are WAY more dialed in to the details then others and will nitpick the mixes for weeks. I know, I have worked on those projects and although it's not fun, actually - that is fine - if the artist wants to do that and is willing to pay the associated costs for that time. Most artists don't have that luxury so it's not an issue 95% of the time.

I guess I just know that whatever amount of time is allocated for a recording, you will use it.

I'm not as experienced as you are but in my 17 years of doing this full time I have very rarely ever finished a project early. So, having a budgeted timeline gives a framework to get things done within. A flat rate is too open ended and I know that I could spend a lot more time experimenting or trying (endless) different options if the time allowed for it, but there is always a finite reality that we need to work within and the budget defines that.

Remove that constraint and you can easily double or triple a timeline no problem - that would make it considerably easier to imagine your hourly rate being a lot lower.

[TapeOpLarry]

I guess I just know that whatever amount of time is allocated for a recording, you will use it. ...in my 17 years of doing this full time I have very rarely ever finished a project early.

I am an oddity in this biz in that I have finished multiple projects early! I'm not kidding. I've found that I budget time well, and I can estimate closely what is needed. So that's how I can offer up a project rate. What I like is getting away from nitpicking hours, minutes, etc. I want to make the same hourly I've always made, but stop getting into these situations where people want a "full day's work" from me when all I want is to get the job done as well as possible.

Here's an example of what I'm so tired of: Artist books time to track 2 songs. "Oh, it's going so well. Let's track 3 more." If I have a project rate, and we agreed on 2, then I can just stop right there and say, "Well, we will have to change the terms of this project. I've budgeted time for 2 songs." I've moved their mind-set from hourly (and jamming every hour with work) to the songs and focusing on the songs alone. Better quality work will ensue, and if we also leave at the 9 hour mark as opposed to the 10 hour mark I'll buy them a round of beers next door.

Mixing rates are set by asking questions and figuring out time I need and adding a little buffer into that, plus some time for 2x revisions.

Production/tracking rates end up being set to a certain number of days overall, with buffer fees in there in case it takes a bit longer. My friend was on a project rate based session, and when the "singer" was really, kinda unable to do their job the project was halted and a new plan/budget had to be in place. I think that sort of safeguard makes a lot of sense, so I have caveats like, "If the drummer is physically unable to play the parts they have written, or are required, then I will discuss options and a new project budget moving forward." If you say it right and are a nice person it doesn't seem too harsh!

Some of this is newer territory for me, and I'm trying to take away the mystery for the artist of how much it might cost, but also protect myself. There might be a few cases where I work a little overtime, but I will be upfront when it's too much.

[TapeOpLarry]

PS: Another reason I'm staring to quote project rates is to make sense of sessions where I'm producing, hiring players, and arranging stuff before we get in the studio. Before I've put off doing any outside the session work because I "wasn't getting paid" or I'd have to clock hours, which is hard when it's really a string of emails over the course of a day to get 3 players on a session. Now I work that into the quote and feel better about the "outside" time.

[joninc]

What I like is getting away from nitpicking hours, minutes, etc.

I felt the same way when I used to work (years ago) on an hourly, now I charge by the day and it helps relieve some of that.

Thanks for the further explanation Larry.

[TapeOpLarry]

I feel like if I have agreed to spend my day working on a project, and I work hard and we are done 1/2hr before my cutoff (10 hrs), why should I make less money that day and more the next day when a client might take 30 minutes to eat a burrito while I wait?