Client woes... Trying to please a singer...

[TapeOpLarry]

My comment to these kind of clients: "Yeah, um, none of the records you like were made they way you are attempting to work right now."

[drumsound]

Play to their wallet, that usually stops their crazier ideas.

This does tend to work very well.

My comment to these kind of clients: "Yeah, um, none of the records you like were made they way you are attempting to work right now."

I need to remember this one.

[nicholasdover]

My comment to these kind of clients: "Yeah, um, none of the records you like were made they way you are attempting to work right now."

HA!
That's kind of the the subtlest and most cutting at once - ideal!

[markjazzbassist]

My comment to these kind of clients: "Yeah, um, none of the records you like were made they way you are attempting to work right now."

post of the year

[Recycled_Brains]

My comment to these kind of clients: "Yeah, um, none of the records you like were made they way you are attempting to work right now."

100%.

Happened to me recently, though not in any where near as annoying a fashion as what Nicholas is dealing with. Basically a band sent me a bunch of examples of music with the sound/vibe they wanted to chase during tracking, so I came to the session with all sorts of ideas only to come to the realization that the material and players, at best, only nod to the examples they sent. So I had to explain that in order to get THAT sound, you would have to rework the material and play the instruments accordingly (we're talking classic soul/funk, muscle shoals, etc.), rather than relying on me to create an aesthetic that doesn't exist in the first place.

Anyways, client is happy either way. Just thought it was interesting.

[TapeOpLarry]

90% of client reference music is completely delusional and pointless. It's usually just records they like and has no bearing on what they are creating or delivering. I just had a client point me at a new age tinkly piano record drenched in reverb, but when I put reverb on his mixes he hated it. Seemed like a total disconnect to me so we parted ways.

[Magnetic Services]

90% of client reference music is completely delusional and pointless. It's usually just records they like and has no bearing on what they are creating or delivering. I just had a client point me at a new age tinkly piano record drenched in reverb, but when I put reverb on his mixes he hated it. Seemed like a total disconnect to me so we parted ways.

Often true, but there's got to be something about that track they're looking for... even if they don't know what it it is. It could be just the tone of a snare in an otherwise unrelated mix, the "attitude" of a singer rather than the vocal processing, or even just a tempo!

Better to dig deeper and have a conversation about what they're looking for than blow off their references as delusional.

Edit: that said, I have been in similar situations and yes, many musicians could be a lot better at this

[Nick Sevilla]

Oh man - I've been asked by a singer to mix her album which was recorded elsewhere (done really well) ...

So, how did it go??? Your deadline was strict, or not?

Cheers

[nicholasdover]

Thanks for all your responses - I took great comfort in hearing all your ideas and sorry I didn't get a chance to refer/respond to them all. I had to give her a hard cutoff on Wed morning where one text from me went "no, I don't agree that the piano is too quiet - you need to stop listening to the mixes now and send them to the mastering engineer" and she just went "okay that's all I needed to hear"! Overall she actually went towards my mixes in the end in most regards - I honestly wouldn't have minded either way, but I'm obviously pleased my take on her vocal sound started to ring true for her. The sad thing is, the experience has slightly burnt the part of me that wants to be inclusive, conversational (vs dictatorial), sensitive and embracing of client ideas in this kind of setup. It just made me go "Oh shit - right, this is why people get tough and build professional walls around themselves". Bit like the only time I've been mugged at knifepoint was when the mugger used "asking for directions" as a way in - when he could hear I was really polite and helpful and really wanted to help him "find his girlfriend", as soon as I went round the corner: there he was with his big knife out (true story). I'm obviously being a total drama queen, but you know what I mean. I've gone straight onto another album mix and I can tell it's going to be far more straight forward, but I just hope I'm not going to be on my guard too much with the next artist who reminds me in any way of the last frustrating one. Part of this is experience - I've done a lot of library music which didn't involve any emotion except my own vague sense of pride when they told me I was off the mark, so dealing with the emotions of incredibly invested people is probably the new thing here for me and I need to learn how to navigate their feelings and desires. She liked me straight away (I think), and also reckon she trusted me to a large extent, but because I don't have a catalogue of relevant artists yet to point to (I've done quite a lot in the last few months, but they're all about to release, honest!!) I guess I'm at that tipping point where I still slightly had to convince her there and then that I was worth trusting, as opposed to just "check out my discography". I've got a pretty good cross section of stylistic things coming through in the next few months so maybe my life will get easier once they're done. Unless I tragically fuck them up...

[TapeOpLarry]

Often true, but there's got to be something about that track they're looking for... even if they don't know what it it is. It could be just the tone of a snare in an otherwise unrelated mix, the "attitude" of a singer rather than the vocal processing, or even just a tempo! Better to dig deeper and have a conversation about what they're looking for than blow off their references as delusional.Edit: that said, I have been in similar situations and yes, many musicians could be a lot better at this

Yeah, I honestly try to do that, and figure out what they are hearing in it, but usually for me just talking about the track actually in questions gets a lot more done. Someone did ask to hear a couple of songs recently and I was able to identify that the liked shifting chord pads under their music!

[TapeOpLarry]

Or in other words, I may sound dismissive here but I work hard to understand my clients! But, reference tracks usually lead pretty much nowhere for me!

[losthighway]

My comment to these kind of clients: "Yeah, um, none of the records you like were made they way you are attempting to work right now."

I find this to happen with so many rock bands who like anything of the subgenres favorites; your classic punk, classic rock, 70's psych, grunge, folk rock, vintage country rock ..... on and on.

They love these records that were often made in really intuitive ways, but they get attracted to the idea of perfection gained through triggered drums, grid editing and autotune. I really think unless you are focused on contemporary radio music, (or some kind of electronic hybrid) those tools are for solving very specific problems when you have no other affordable, or technically attainable solution. They are not default work methods if you love classic records.

[Magnetic Services]

shifting chord pads

This sounds fun.

[drumsound]

Or in other words, I may sound dismissive here but I work hard to understand my clients! But, reference tracks usually lead pretty much nowhere for me!

I don't mind when I get a mix of influences to get a general idea. A group of songs and artists gets me in the neighborhood of where their heads are at. One song or artist usually doesn't help.

[Nick Sevilla]

... I just hope I'm not going to be on my guard too much with the next artist who reminds me in any way of the last frustrating one. ...

I hope you won't. The best way to avoid this is to realize we are all human, and we all listen to things very differently. The trick is learning through experience to learn how to translate how someone else listens to stuff, into something you can find useful in your craft. It takes years to do that, and is also a continuous learning experience.

The best is to always have open and honest conversations with the artist. Don't ever be afraid of telling them that what they have actually recorded "on tape" as it were, is not near enough to what is in their heads. Especially now that everyone is self recording.

I sometimes have an older multitrack available, to show them. Things like "before and after" I process things. I also have a LOT of music on my iTunes library, and we can A/B on the spot, instead of having me tell them that their memory of a song is different, we actually listen to the reference song and A/B directly to our mix. Most times they do realize their recording is nowhere to the real thing, and is only close to their Memory of the reference song. That helps a lot.