Let's talk guitar amp recording

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vvv
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Let's talk guitar amp recording

Post by vvv » Mon Dec 17, 2018 12:47 pm

So it's cyclical, of course but my latest thing is to record either a Vox 50w. Nightrain into a closed 10", or a Tech 21 Trademark 60, with the amp usually set clean, and lotsa pedals. Also, I might crank a Marshall Jubilee 12" combo for a lead tone ... or the odd Pro,Jr. for a rhythm. (The other amps are currently just sitting, altho' I kinda like the little Elektar for keys, and an Ampeg BA108 for recording bass.)

But where I'm going with this, see, is the mic'ing.

One of the kids just got his own place and daddy came up with a new amp room, yeah, what gives me distance from the loud, but I can still step into the hallway to get feedback.

And I've gotten into a now months long pattern of running a close CAD Trion ribbon into a Cathedral Pipes booster into something like a UA110 or a PM1000, combined with a 8' out Shinybox 23L ribbon into another Cath booster into, say, an ISA1 ur a UA710.

Then the fun comes from either wide pans, or close pans, adding compression or delay onna track, different EQ's, etc., getting two different sounds on the same part, which to date I've been combining, tho' alternating will soon be tried.

It's kinda a pain compared to just hanging a Senn 609 or a 57 from the handle, but it's also really worth it.

Anybody doing anything interesting?
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Re: Let's talk guitar amp recording

Post by kslight » Mon Dec 17, 2018 1:20 pm

Since I record my own guitar work a lot, and have a very tight space to work with/aversion to blowing my head off with amps in the same room, I picked up a two notes torpedo Live awhile back. I plug my amp in (currently Mesa DC10), dial in an IR and simultaneously record a wet and a dry track...so I can then also layer together/tweak further with wall of sound. Pretty happy with the results, especially with the recent official Mesa impulses just added. I generally like to split my signal off with various different paths no matter what I’m doing really with guitar.

I also am working on a score that’s primarily acoustic and banjo...which I’m doing with a Variax into an HD500x. I’m taking an out off the magnetic pickup, and then the modeled, and running that into a cassette echo and a Moog chorus...

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Re: Let's talk guitar amp recording

Post by drumsound » Mon Dec 17, 2018 2:11 pm

With one guitar player and no other chordal instruments during basics, I often use two mics, panned out 3-9 usually, but sometimes hard panned. On overdubs, I usually use a room mic with a close mic. The room mic is often a good talkback as well. Sometimes its actually put up as a talkback, and then becomes the room mic.

I sometimes pick random mics as a starting point. Sometimes I'm really specific in my choice, based on the player's tone. Sometimes I'm even right in that choice...

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Re: Let's talk guitar amp recording

Post by A.David.MacKinnon » Mon Dec 17, 2018 3:54 pm

drumsound wrote:
Mon Dec 17, 2018 2:11 pm
With one guitar player and no other chordal instruments during basics, I often use two mics, panned out 3-9 usually, but sometimes hard panned. On overdubs, I usually use a room mic with a close mic. The room mic is often a good talkback as well. Sometimes its actually put up as a talkback, and then becomes the room mic.

I sometimes pick random mics as a starting point. Sometimes I'm really specific in my choice, based on the player's tone. Sometimes I'm even right in that choice...
I’m kinda the same. If it’s a power trio I’ll often track two amps and pan them left and right. Bleed and room mics add some atmosphere/depth.
If it’s an overdub I’ll often do a close mic and a room. Sometimes they get bussed together to one track.
As far as mics go my list gets smaller and smaller as the years go on. M88, re15, 664 or 635a, sm59 (no typo, and little resemblance to a 57 or 58), sometimes a ribbon. I flirted with double micing (57/421 style) but one close mic always sounds better to me.

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Re: Let's talk guitar amp recording

Post by drumsound » Mon Dec 17, 2018 6:54 pm

I don't have an A/B, so I'll just put two different sounding mics on one amp. Who makes a good (not buzz induciong or tone sucking) A/B? We had one at the old place, but it wasn't good for noise.

I usually bus the room mic with the close, especially if its a solo. Last weekend I used the vocal mic in the booth as the room mic for the solo, doors open, obviously.

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Re: Let's talk guitar amp recording

Post by A.David.MacKinnon » Mon Dec 17, 2018 7:09 pm

I had a great active one by whirlwind (I think) but it died a few years back. On most amps with two jacks per channel I’ll just run out of the second jack and into the other amp. Works on most fender, traynor and other misc. tube amps. As long as they’re plugged into the same circuit you’re golden.

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Re: Let's talk guitar amp recording

Post by losthighway » Mon Dec 17, 2018 7:13 pm

I'm pretty meat and potatoes. If I have track space I usually pick two: m160, Cascade Gomez, Mojave 301fet, SM7, AT4033, m201.

If it's overdubs I usually have a room mic set to huge, or even negative ratio on a DBX 160 (so smashed to shit) as a talk back. Usually there's one part in one song out of a half a dozen where I keep a track of that for ambience, sometimes hard panned opposite the regular track.

The only thing more exotic I've been playing with is the one guitar take, two amps, one delayed slightly trick. I've heard this done well on Bob Mould, Cloud Nothings and Green Day records, but I've never fallen in love with my results. It might just be a trick of the right tones, and the right number of delay milliseconds.

Oh also, I've used a Boss tuner pedal, or the tuner out on a volume pedal to split the signal. I had a bandmate with an ABY pedal called 'startouch' I can't remember who made it that worked well, or there are a ton of Radial boxes that seem pretty effective.

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Re: Let's talk guitar amp recording

Post by ubertar » Tue Dec 18, 2018 6:21 am

losthighway wrote:
Mon Dec 17, 2018 7:13 pm
I've used a Boss tuner pedal, or the tuner out on a volume pedal to split the signal.
Another way to do this that doesn't have the drawbacks of a split signal (but is only practical if the guitar is yours, not a client's) is to replace the output jack on the guitar with a stereo jack and run one pickup to tip and one to ring, then use a Y splitter cable to two amps. Then you have the different tones of the pickups, in different positions, and they're full signals. You can add a switch from tip to ring you can engage when you're not splitting, so a TS cable will give you all your original pickup options (you don't lose any functionality).
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Re: Let's talk guitar amp recording

Post by standup » Tue Dec 18, 2018 6:57 am

I have two amps set up most of the time. A Fender Princeton and a Showman combo with 15" (and the yellow jacket EL84 adapters and 2 tubes not 4, so it's a 20-30 watt amp). I usually have a ribbon on the Princeton and an EV 408 on the Showman for different tones. Small room, and this setup gives me decent isolation because it's usually not super loud.

I now have a small Vox AC10 that I don't know what to do with. I usually just move the ribbon mic over to the Vox when needed.

I do record a lot of my own stuff -- maybe it would be fun to set up some kind of splitter and track both amps playing the same part? I'll have to try that soon, coming off a stereo reverb pedal or something.

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Re: Let's talk guitar amp recording

Post by Recycled_Brains » Tue Dec 18, 2018 8:27 am

drumsound wrote:
Mon Dec 17, 2018 6:54 pm
Who makes a good (not buzz induciong or tone sucking) A/B?
https://www.nerdknuckleeffects.com/list ... p-splitter
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Re: Let's talk guitar amp recording

Post by Recycled_Brains » Tue Dec 18, 2018 8:49 am

Usually a sE VR1 mixed with a dynamic mic like an SM7 (1st choice), M88 or 421. The balance leans heavily on the VR1 though. Just a little bit of the dynamic to add some treble, rather than EQ'ing it too much. M160's are so great on amps too, but I usually reserve mine for smaller rigs. I'm too fearful that the insane volumes myself and other players use is too much.

I used to default to a 2-amp set up for heavy bands. Now it depends. Diming one amp and capturing it as simply as possible is more appealing to me lately. Crank the amp until the cab starts to really fill out the room. I go back and forth (and back and forth) doing very small adjustments to amp settings and mic positioning before I touch an EQ. Usually that means I don't touch an EQ. Digging lower wattage speakers lately. I got a vintage Marshall with a couple of Greenbacks and a couple other 25w speakers that I can't remember the name of. Anyway, totally changed things for me. The way the low mids bark and the throatiness of it is so good. Paired with my JMP it's unreal.

I love pedals, but not as the primary mode of getting gain. I don't think there's been one single instance where a distortion pedal into a clean amp has sounded good to me. I like to use an overdrive barely on to just sorta tip an already wailing amp just that hair more over the edge. Then add a Rat or something like that for a super brutal sound. I like to mess with different types of pedals on overdubs so it's not just the same sound piling on top of the basics.

So, nothing crazy really.
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Re: Let's talk guitar amp recording

Post by losthighway » Tue Dec 18, 2018 4:08 pm

ubertar wrote:
Tue Dec 18, 2018 6:21 am
losthighway wrote:
Mon Dec 17, 2018 7:13 pm
I've used a Boss tuner pedal, or the tuner out on a volume pedal to split the signal.
Another way to do this that doesn't have the drawbacks of a split signal (but is only practical if the guitar is yours, not a client's) is to replace the output jack on the guitar with a stereo jack and run one pickup to tip and one to ring, then use a Y splitter cable to two amps. Then you have the different tones of the pickups, in different positions, and they're full signals. You can add a switch from tip to ring you can engage when you're not splitting, so a TS cable will give you all your original pickup options (you don't lose any functionality).
I watched John Reis (Rocket From the Crypt, Drive Like Jehu etc) playing with Hot Snakes live a few months back. He had two jacks on his guitar sending one pickup to an AC30 and the other to a vintage Marshall. It was pretty amazing sounding.

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Re: Let's talk guitar amp recording

Post by joninc » Tue Dec 18, 2018 4:50 pm

I tend to get onto a certain thing and stick with it for a while, then get bored and try sometime new...

I've been using a AEA N22 a lot for the past 8 months or so. It's dark and rich - which is usually a good things as I can tend towards overly bright fender amps and guitars. Not as woofy as a R121 can be.

Sometimes I'll combine with condenser like a UM70 for added brightness..

sm7 and re20 sometimes as well. Or an M160.

once in a while I'll remember how good the coles sound and use that too... or instead.

I often track a room mic but it usually ends up too phasey and comb filtery to use ...
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Re: Let's talk guitar amp recording

Post by vvv » Tue Dec 18, 2018 5:51 pm

So many idears! 8) 8) 8) 8) 8)

I gotta try that two amp thing; I have a cuppla loop pedals with double sends, some sends buffered, some not. And of course, stereo pedals like chorus and delays. Also, some pedals (compressors, delays) give a pass-thru jack. On the one hand, I'm sure impedance is altered, on the other, who cares if it sounds good!

I should also mention I occasionally put that little Pro,Jr. in the bathroom, with a mic out in the hall. A few times I had whatever amp and mic in the bedroom, and another mic in the bathroom across the hall.

Re the Torpedo - yeah, well, I wish I had the $, but I do have some DI pedals options that are workable for late nights and lazy times: a Hafler T2 into a Microcab, Vox stuff, some Zoom, some Tech 21, even some Joyo ...

Re the clean amp + pedals thing: yeah, the tube amp is set just short of or just at break-up, and for clean sounds a boost pedal is used and then playing dynamics. Otherwise, and I posted here about this before, I been getting my rocks off with the J. Mascis thing of a cleanish boost pedal after a distortion or 3, that last boost used to control the signal hitting the amp. I'm in a subdivision on 1/4 acre lots, no "sound-proofing", bedroom windows (1 in the main room) and while my neighbors like me, I don't want that to change. My 50w. amps at 60% are audible on the street, but I like high-gain sounds, so this is my approach - not a compromise as I like it. Altho' I do whip out and crank up my Marshal for the occasional lead, as stated. For that matter, nothing sounds as good in Twin-land as my Musicman HD130 into a 2x12" Celestion open back cab, what I have not played for far too long ...

So many idears! 8) 8) 8) 8) 8)
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Re: Let's talk guitar amp recording

Post by Magnetic Services » Wed Dec 19, 2018 11:24 am

Haven't used it for any records yet, but I've been loving Native Instruments' Guitar Rig just to mess around with.

Of course there's some "analog guilt" going on here, but it sounds so good and it's so flexible! Would it be so bad to record DI guitars, put them through Guitar Rig, then Re-amp for that speaker+air sound?? Am I Satan?!
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