Weathervane overhead

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randrohe
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Weathervane overhead

Post by randrohe » Fri Dec 28, 2018 7:38 pm

I have set this up recently and have really been impressed with the results.
Ribbon centered between kick and snare, roughly over ride cymbal, pointed at snare.
Right sdc pointed down at snare.
My question is where the the left / over shoulder should be looking at?
The floor Tom, ride, or snare?
Thanks in advance.

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losthighway
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Re: Weathervane overhead

Post by losthighway » Fri Dec 28, 2018 8:27 pm

Do you mean Weathervane as in the online Shaking Through docs?

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Re: Weathervane overhead

Post by randrohe » Fri Dec 28, 2018 8:51 pm

Yes, that’s the one. Also, it was explained on the Creative sound lab series on you
tube. I just can’t see where that left overhead mic is actually pointing at.

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Re: Weathervane overhead

Post by losthighway » Fri Dec 28, 2018 9:44 pm

I think it should be the floor tom/ride since the other side mic is so focused on the snare.

I love what those guys do with their series and I've heard plenty of their results- they make awesome drum sounds. That said, I think their triangle of string on the kick and snare is not why their sounds work well. Usually when you measure it's for phase coherency from one single point, the snare (like someone would for Glyn Johns, or George Massenburg style overheads). The idea that you would measure to make a triangle with two bottom points at the snare and kick, with a top point that reaches each overhead doesn't mean the snare or kick is the same distance from each mic.

Still, I think their sounds work anyways, and the big ribbon looking through the mid point between the tom/crash and the floor/ride is really smart. I just think it's weird to see all of the instruction they put into their triangle string, which doesn't logically seem to accomplish the goals it sets out to.

Then again, maybe I just don't get it. It's kind of a geometry question.

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Re: Weathervane overhead

Post by drumsound » Fri Dec 28, 2018 10:01 pm

randrohe wrote:
Fri Dec 28, 2018 7:38 pm
I have set this up recently and have really been impressed with the results.
Ribbon centered between kick and snare, roughly over ride cymbal, pointed at snare.
Right sdc pointed down at snare.
My question is where the the left / over shoulder should be looking at?
The floor Tom, ride, or snare?
Thanks in advance.
Do you have a link to what you're talking about? No pics?

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losthighway
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Re: Weathervane overhead

Post by losthighway » Fri Dec 28, 2018 10:07 pm

drumsound wrote:
Fri Dec 28, 2018 10:01 pm


Do you have a link to what you're talking about? No pics?
Different topic in this video, but you can see what it looks like pretty clearly here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pcaBy9UoneY&t=76s

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Re: Weathervane overhead

Post by drumsound » Fri Dec 28, 2018 10:28 pm

losthighway wrote:
Fri Dec 28, 2018 10:07 pm
drumsound wrote:
Fri Dec 28, 2018 10:01 pm


Do you have a link to what you're talking about? No pics?
Different topic in this video, but you can see what it looks like pretty clearly here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pcaBy9UoneY&t=76s
I see that snippet at the beginning of the video where they're measuring mics. Looks like each of the 3 mics are equidistant from the snare.

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Re: Weathervane overhead

Post by randrohe » Sat Dec 29, 2018 6:29 am

Here is the link to the creative sound lab video: https://youtu.be/K9NjecFFoIQ
From studying this, it looks like the left overhead is pointed more at the snare?
At the end of the day, I know the correct answer is to use my ears, where ever it sounds best.
I believe the technique is to place the center mic, then string from kick center up to center mic, back down to snare center.
This establishes height for all three mics.
Then a second measurement string to get all mics equidistant from each other.
Here is the Weathervane video where they explain it and show the process: https://youtu.be/OjN7aCLKeTo
Starts explanation at appx. 17:00.
So far, It’s been a serious revelation compared to the x/y method I was using.
And I was starting to convince myself I needed a new drum kit.
Thanks for any insight

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A.David.MacKinnon
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Re: Weathervane overhead

Post by A.David.MacKinnon » Sat Dec 29, 2018 6:39 am

I used to measure when I was setting overheads or doing the Glynn John's thing. After a while I decided that it made zero difference
Even after measuring I still had to move the mics to find the right spots. These days I just eyeball it and then adjust as I listen back.
Use your ears. There are no short cuts.

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Re: Weathervane overhead

Post by vvv » Sat Dec 29, 2018 7:00 am

I like the Johns thing (augmented) sometimes.

I [unfortunately] record acoustic drums so seldom*, tho', that the measurement approach is a good place to start.



* My current drummer uses a Roland TD11.
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frans_13
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Re: Weathervane overhead

Post by frans_13 » Sat Dec 29, 2018 7:02 am

I may be crazy, but distance alone is not all there is - i find it easier to have my drumtracks in phase when i have (for example) all mics that point downwards in the same angle, say, all straight down - versus overheads pointed here, tom mics pointed there and so on.

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Re: Weathervane overhead

Post by randrohe » Sat Dec 29, 2018 7:06 am

My biggest stumbling block is being my own engineer / rarely recording other drummers.
Set up mics, record 60 seconds, go to control room, listen, adjust. Repeat until any creative idea I may have had dissolves into a whisp of smoke!

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Re: Weathervane overhead

Post by vvv » Sat Dec 29, 2018 7:17 am

I leave my patchbay and my mic'd amps set up for that very reason!

If the kit remains set up, you could just leave the mics in place. Or, tape on the floor, string from the ceiling to mark their spots (and the kit, too) ...

At the least, mebbe digital photos?
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losthighway
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Re: Weathervane overhead

Post by losthighway » Sat Dec 29, 2018 7:59 am

randrohe wrote:
Sat Dec 29, 2018 6:29 am
I believe the technique is to place the center mic, then string from kick center up to center mic, back down to snare center.
This establishes height for all three mics.
Right, but for each mic to be equidistant from the snare they would need different heights, because one is directly above the snare, the other two are quite a bit further to the side.

Again, doesn't actually matter, but after seeing a lot of these episodes and them saying so many things that were right on this stuck out to me. Inspiring me to make theoretical arguments that I've already noticed aren't terribly important. How tedious I am!

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Re: Weathervane overhead

Post by randrohe » Sat Dec 29, 2018 11:07 am

From what I understand, the mics form a equidistant triangle based off the center mic, which is the first one placed.
The heights are not the same.
The string from the kick center, up to the center mic, back down to snare center establishes the height and arc placement of the three overheads, and then those mics form the triangle equidistant from the center mic.

I would throw a photo up of what I have going on, but not sure where to host, nor how to link too.
Yeah, I’m a dinosaur...lol

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