Weathervane overhead

Recording Techniques, People Skills, Gear, Recording Spaces, Computers, and DIY

Moderators: drumsound, tomb

User avatar
I'm Painting Again
zen recordist
Posts: 7020
Joined: Wed May 07, 2003 2:15 am
Location: New York, New York
Contact:

Re: Weathervane overhead

Post by I'm Painting Again » Fri Jan 04, 2019 8:27 am

drumsound wrote:
Thu Jan 03, 2019 8:25 pm
I'm Painting Again wrote:
Thu Jan 03, 2019 4:18 pm
drumsound wrote:
Thu Jan 03, 2019 11:50 am


I like to think of a center line of where the BD beater hits and the center of the snare when I'm placing overheads.
that's a smart move and I'll start there often myself - at least when I'm doing a vanilla mic style and trying to maximize options for later and not just baking in the sound to begin with

for fans of this with low ceilings and bad cymbals (and you're not wanting as much attack from the top skins if you have no close mics) try an experiment with weather vane underheads - spend a bit of time positioning and listening - it can be pretty great when you get it

ORTF underheads is a simpler way to try it out initially if you have any faith in this idea
I've heard people talk about underheads for years, but have never done it. I've done a similar to Albini close front M/S pair a couple of times, and that is pretty cool.

When you say ORTF underheads, where are you putting them? I've thought to try right behind and slightly to the drummers left, so that they are on the level with the drummer's head.

obviously definitely not on the horizontal where the cymbals are setup - unless you want something totally verkakte :) -- between there and the floor where the height of the room's effect on the frequency response sounds the least combified - main reason being to get the closer shell sound/mellow the cymbals - seems to work for me about the height of about the center of the rack toms give or take a few inches

where I'm picturing your M/S (a lil in front and slightly above the kick) is where I've had the most success with unders (ORTF pencil condensers in omni) - those will give sort of a more traditional OH type sound - however not the nice body (in especially the kick) and as much mono compatibility of say a beyer 160/130 M/S in that spot (ribbon sound)- it's good if you want to solve specific problems like the over the kit position is too harsh with the room/ cymbals /mics combination one has available - or if you simply know you want that sound as the music calls for it

if it's not live off the floor with drums next to amps or something theoretically you could put them anyplace around the kit that sounds balanced

dealing with amps in the same room and even with baffles implemented I'll try to start with them pointing the same direction as the other drum mics and the room mics and where they're nulling the rest of the room in a way that the bleed sounds about 2/3 quieter than the direct sound and pretty dark sounding as well (baffle is often the tool here) sorta like what a ribbon out in the room mixed in kinda soft might typically sound like

the slightly to left - (or perhaps right if they're a lefty) behind the drummers head I myself call "over the shoulder" and that's probably my #1 favourite spot to mic any drum kit - it's extremely balanced overall - on the last heavy rock record i used a beyer 160 in that position for the entire close drum sound - it was a 70's punk sound and it worked excellent (with the help of an API preamp to 418a limiter - A Designes hammer v2 EQ chain)- there was a stereo pair out across the room as well picking up drums guitar and bass - (bass amp next to the kick a lil in front non baffled !! and guitar amp to the side baffled) - the rooms played a significant role in the drum sound - added the space and some high end detail as they were SDC's to compliment the ribbon directly on the kit

i don't think theorizing about drum sounds will ever not be exciting for me and i feel so blessed to have the opportunity to help people make records

some of the best things about this stuff are that i find myself constantly learning via the practice (and for me at least) it's always a challenge and i love that !!!

drumsound
zen recordist
Posts: 6674
Joined: Tue Jun 01, 2004 10:30 pm
Location: Bloomington IL
Contact:

Re: Weathervane overhead

Post by drumsound » Sat Jan 05, 2019 12:46 am

I'm Painting Again wrote:
Fri Jan 04, 2019 8:27 am



obviously definitely not on the horizontal where the cymbals are setup - unless you want something totally verkakte :) -- between there and the floor where the height of the room's effect on the frequency response sounds the least combified - main reason being to get the closer shell sound/mellow the cymbals - seems to work for me about the height of about the center of the rack toms give or take a few inches

where I'm picturing your M/S (a lil in front and slightly above the kick) is where I've had the most success with unders (ORTF pencil condensers in omni) - those will give sort of a more traditional OH type sound - however not the nice body (in especially the kick) and as much mono compatibility of say a beyer 160/130 M/S in that spot (ribbon sound)- it's good if you want to solve specific problems like the over the kit position is too harsh with the room/ cymbals /mics combination one has available - or if you simply know you want that sound as the music calls for it

if it's not live off the floor with drums next to amps or something theoretically you could put them anyplace around the kit that sounds balanced

dealing with amps in the same room and even with baffles implemented I'll try to start with them pointing the same direction as the other drum mics and the room mics and where they're nulling the rest of the room in a way that the bleed sounds about 2/3 quieter than the direct sound and pretty dark sounding as well (baffle is often the tool here) sorta like what a ribbon out in the room mixed in kinda soft might typically sound like

the slightly to left - (or perhaps right if they're a lefty) behind the drummers head I myself call "over the shoulder" and that's probably my #1 favourite spot to mic any drum kit - it's extremely balanced overall - on the last heavy rock record i used a beyer 160 in that position for the entire close drum sound - it was a 70's punk sound and it worked excellent (with the help of an API preamp to 418a limiter - A Designes hammer v2 EQ chain)- there was a stereo pair out across the room as well picking up drums guitar and bass - (bass amp next to the kick a lil in front non baffled !! and guitar amp to the side baffled) - the rooms played a significant role in the drum sound - added the space and some high end detail as they were SDC's to compliment the ribbon directly on the kit

i don't think theorizing about drum sounds will ever not be exciting for me and i feel so blessed to have the opportunity to help people make records

some of the best things about this stuff are that i find myself constantly learning via the practice (and for me at least) it's always a challenge and i love that !!!
Thanks for the through response. I've done variations of over the shoulder with a ribbon and liked it a lot as well. I'm going to reread this before my next drum session.

Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 12 guests