unhyped kick drum mic

Recording Techniques, People Skills, Gear, Recording Spaces, Computers, and DIY

Moderators: drumsound, tomb

User avatar
Snarl 12/8
ghost haunting audio students
Posts: 3395
Joined: Sat Dec 20, 2008 5:01 pm
Location: Right Cheer
Contact:

Re: unhyped kick drum mic

Post by Snarl 12/8 » Fri Jan 24, 2020 6:07 pm

I keep wanting to chime in on this thread, because I've been recording kick drums (usually my own) for 35 years now. And my most recent major change in my studio was the result of frustration trying to record marching bass drums in stereo. It caused me to chuck my entire mixer and get a new one. I'm still incorporating the [new to me] Allen and Heath into my workflow.

But I don't really have any answers yet. I think it all starts to matter when you get towards the fringes of what gear can do. (Like super loud, super low, super high) things start to behave nonlinearly and stuff. Bass drums are loud and low. So, room matters, mic matters, placement matters, preamp matters, everything after that matters. And, what I'm finding now is that the quality and condition of the gear matters. Maybe my newer MXL 2001 doesn't behave the same way as my older one? Mics can get little rattles and distortions just mechanically, and this can be an issue with a kick drum or bass rig especially. I think about 4-5 of my mics make mechanical bump/scratch noises when subjected to kick drum that they don't make in other positions. They sound like a mic does when it's bumped just from the low frequency SPL of the drum.

I've gotten what I thought were great sounds many different ways. The most unhyped class of mics I can think of is omnis and pzms and I've gotten cool sounds with both of those on the intact resonant head with something like a D112 or e602 by the beater. Like, mic stand next to kick pedal on the beater side. Just flip poles until it sounds good. I'm actually a huge fan of equally "weighted" (but different sounding, obviously) beater vs resonant head hard panned L/R. And in that case I don't even give a shit about polarity. Like, when you stick your head into a bass drum, it's a crazy, phasey mess, but it's awesome, if you've got the ear cells to spare.

Sorry if I ranted unhelpfully.
Carl Keil

Almost forgot: Please steal my drum tracks. and more.

User avatar
losthighway
deaf.
Posts: 1984
Joined: Mon Apr 14, 2008 8:02 pm
Contact:

Re: unhyped kick drum mic

Post by losthighway » Sat Jan 25, 2020 7:22 am

A.David.MacKinnon wrote:
Fri Jan 24, 2020 3:24 pm
By all accounts it was also the kick mic on some of the early 70's John Lennon records.
Yeah those ones were sometimes an example of songcraft and performance transcending fidelity to me.

User avatar
digitaldrummer
resurrected
Posts: 2295
Joined: Wed Nov 23, 2005 9:51 pm
Location: Austin, Texas
Contact:

Re: unhyped kick drum mic

Post by digitaldrummer » Sat Jan 25, 2020 8:41 am

Snarl 12/8 wrote:
Fri Jan 24, 2020 6:07 pm
I think about 4-5 of my mics make mechanical bump/scratch noises when subjected to kick drum that they don't make in other positions. They sound like a mic does when it's bumped just from the low frequency SPL of the drum.
it's true. a bass drum needs a mic that can handle very high SPL, especially if you are putting the mic close to the source. And most condenser mics cannot truly handle those levels. Then if you do find a mic that works, you have to have the preamp that can take it without overloading, etc. as it sounds like you are finding/have found.
Mike
www.studiodrumtracks.com -- Drum tracks starting at $50!
www.doubledogrecording.com

User avatar
joninc
deaf.
Posts: 1954
Joined: Mon Jun 09, 2003 5:02 pm
Location: canada
Contact:

Re: unhyped kick drum mic

Post by joninc » Sat Jan 25, 2020 1:36 pm

Snarl 12/8 wrote:
Fri Jan 24, 2020 6:07 pm
The most unhyped class of mics I can think of is omnis and pzms and I've gotten cool sounds with both of those on the intact resonant head with something like a D112 or e602 by the beater.
Interesting - i have used a Stapes omni here and liked it a lot but curious how/where you'd place the PZM to mic the reso head?

I have the radioshack pzm and they are cool but very bright and slappy. not a full bodied tone.

(still think atm 25 is a killer mic for kick and probably the most affordable option :)
the new rules : there are no rules

User avatar
I'm Painting Again
zen recordist
Posts: 7050
Joined: Wed May 07, 2003 2:15 am
Location: New York, New York
Contact:

Re: unhyped kick drum mic

Post by I'm Painting Again » Sat Jan 25, 2020 2:13 pm

all 57 kit right here

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YXs8CYyjfA0

haha it's a sound !

User avatar
Snarl 12/8
ghost haunting audio students
Posts: 3395
Joined: Sat Dec 20, 2008 5:01 pm
Location: Right Cheer
Contact:

Re: unhyped kick drum mic

Post by Snarl 12/8 » Sat Jan 25, 2020 11:10 pm

joninc wrote:
Sat Jan 25, 2020 1:36 pm
Interesting - i have used a Stapes omni here and liked it a lot but curious how/where you'd place the PZM to mic the reso head?
This was in a tiny, roughly triangularly shaped room, the last I tried it. So your mileage might really vary. I think putting the pzm on the wall opposite the bass drum worked best. 12" away maybe, it was a tiny room. The bass drum was at a slight angle to the wall not parallel drum head and wall. Next best was putting it in the middle of a piece of plywood, or a gobo or something. The bigger the piece of plywood the lower I felt the frequency of the "ring" that those mics seem to have. I think I used like a 2' x 2' piece of plywood too good advantage one time. Duct tape, probably and a screw through that hole in the metal.
Carl Keil

Almost forgot: Please steal my drum tracks. and more.

MoreSpaceEcho
zen recordist
Posts: 6382
Joined: Wed May 07, 2003 11:15 am

Re: unhyped kick drum mic

Post by MoreSpaceEcho » Sun Jan 26, 2020 8:08 am

Definitely try the PZM on the floor in front of the kick, anywhere from 1-6' out. Can pretty much guarantee this'll give you some kind of cool sound.

nicholasdover
alignin' 24-trk
Posts: 63
Joined: Fri Aug 12, 2011 8:45 am
Location: Bristol UK
Contact:

Re: unhyped kick drum mic

Post by nicholasdover » Tue Feb 04, 2020 2:51 pm

I've got D112, Beyer Opus 65, Sen 602, Shure 52, RE20, SM7, Heil PR40 at my place, almost all of which have been mentioned I think, but I made up one of those Microphone Parts RK47 kits with one of their Shoeps-ish transformerless circuit (it was reviewed a few years ago in Tape Op) and while that mic is quite harsh on some things like loud female singers/saxophones (but great on acoustic guitar, a real favourite), it really makes up all/most of my kick sound in recent months! All it ever needs is a bit less 400, but other than that it gets all the good stuff, I just have to watch it's not in front of any blast - pretty sensitive. I use it with CAPI VP 25/26/28 pre's that all have pads as mic doesn't have one. Backed up with D112 in hole (or one of the others) on another part of skin to get the mids, I can usually get myself and the drummer happy.
Nick

User avatar
vvv
zen recordist
Posts: 8962
Joined: Tue May 13, 2003 8:08 am
Location: Chi
Contact:

Re: unhyped kick drum mic

Post by vvv » Tue Feb 04, 2020 3:13 pm

I've not had the chance, but someone on here sometime ago strongly reco'd the M-Audio Luna, or to try another relatively inexpensive tube mic, outside the kick.
bandcamp; vlayman;
THD; Geronimo Cowboys;
blog.
I mix with olive juice.

User avatar
michaelkerchner
ass engineer
Posts: 40
Joined: Mon May 13, 2019 4:56 am
Location: Royersford PA

Re: unhyped kick drum mic

Post by michaelkerchner » Wed Feb 05, 2020 3:25 am

vvv wrote:
Tue Feb 04, 2020 3:13 pm
I've not had the chance, but someone on here sometime ago strongly reco'd the M-Audio Luna, or to try another relatively inexpensive tube mic, outside the kick.
that would be nice, as i came into a Luna about 2 years ago and have yet to have anything sound good coming through it
sounds good, compress it
@thedarkchurchrecording

User avatar
vvv
zen recordist
Posts: 8962
Joined: Tue May 13, 2003 8:08 am
Location: Chi
Contact:

Re: unhyped kick drum mic

Post by vvv » Sun Feb 16, 2020 8:42 am

Really?

I love that mic on vocals.

Pretty cool on room, also.
bandcamp; vlayman;
THD; Geronimo Cowboys;
blog.
I mix with olive juice.

Calaverasgrande
audio school graduate
Posts: 22
Joined: Sun Feb 16, 2020 8:35 am

Re: unhyped kick drum mic

Post by Calaverasgrande » Sun Feb 16, 2020 11:47 am

Big fan of the Beyer TGX50. I think they changed it up when they made the MKII version. Probably because the flatter older version wasn't flying off the shelves.
One mic I never use is the D112. I remember when those came out and us live sound guys ate them up like popcorn. Durable and easy to position. Great rejection. But damn if they don't make every kick sound like a basketball.

Also love using a LDC about 3-4 feet in front of the kit. Maybe in omni if the room can bear it. But usually on a more controlled pattern. Works nice with a simple 3 mic setup. One over the hat pointed at the snare. The other splitting the difference between the rack toms and floor tom.

User avatar
vvv
zen recordist
Posts: 8962
Joined: Tue May 13, 2003 8:08 am
Location: Chi
Contact:

Re: unhyped kick drum mic

Post by vvv » Sun Feb 16, 2020 12:08 pm

why you only got two posts?

I think I been seeing your name (or similar) around here for years ...
bandcamp; vlayman;
THD; Geronimo Cowboys;
blog.
I mix with olive juice.

Calaverasgrande
audio school graduate
Posts: 22
Joined: Sun Feb 16, 2020 8:35 am

2 POSTS

Post by Calaverasgrande » Sun Feb 16, 2020 4:46 pm

Couldn't recall my old password. Tried to reset it and it didn't recognize my email accounts. So I made a new account.
Calaverasgrande was my nickname 20 years ago. But the girl that gave ti to me had an incomplete understanding of Spanish.
i was told later that Calaverasgrandes is more correct.
But yeah, same guy. Live in NY now.

User avatar
vvv
zen recordist
Posts: 8962
Joined: Tue May 13, 2003 8:08 am
Location: Chi
Contact:

Re: unhyped kick drum mic

Post by vvv » Sun Feb 16, 2020 5:20 pm

Welcome back!
bandcamp; vlayman;
THD; Geronimo Cowboys;
blog.
I mix with olive juice.

Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 27 guests