Neve flavor

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kayagum
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Neve flavor

Post by kayagum » Wed May 06, 2020 5:26 pm

Not desperate, more curious:

Anything I’m truly missing using Neve flavored preamps, especially for acoustic guitar?

I have been using a WA 412 and having lots of fun with it, especially trying different compressors with it.

What say you all? Less interested in drum applications, more other instruments.
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vvv
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Re: Neve flavor

Post by vvv » Wed May 06, 2020 5:42 pm

Well, I don't know the WA, but I really love my ISA One, which is Neve-designed, I believe; I love it on acoustic guitar and even more on amps.

I also have a Summit 2BA221, said to be "Neve-inspired", also a great pre on acoustic guitar and I use it often on vocals.

FWIW, I also really like the Focusrite Eureka on acoustic guitars (and vox and amps) - usually a good bit cheaper and a channel strip with defeatable EQ, compressor and like the above has variable impedance. A cool trick with these is to run it into a second compressor, with the Eureka set fast and the next (I like an 1176-type, or a Meek) set slow. Or vice-versa.
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joninc
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Re: Neve flavor

Post by joninc » Wed May 06, 2020 6:37 pm

only you can really answer that question - if you are happy with you're getting then that is great. Make music and don't stress over the subtleties of preamps... tuning is a WAY bigger factor in the overall picture. and certainly lots of people have made fantastic albums without Neve preamps.

That being said - I find in general, that API flavored stuff has more of an emphasis on the mids so a Neve might be a contrast in that can be a little thicker in the bottom and certain Neve styles pres have a bit more excitement in the top end....

I don't own any Neve brand stuff but several clones - Vintech 1272. Great River NV, Silver Bullet/Chroma as well as an ISA 428 which is a little cleaner but still a solid preamp. The great river is the most impressive of this bunch but I used the Vintech for years as my main best pre and loved it on lots of vocals/guitars and drums.. It lives on toms now. It's a little slower/phatter than the GR. I do like the thickness/solidity of the Great River on drums and Bass and reach for it on vocals and guitars when I want a little more presence then a tube pre like the solo 610.

I've been playing with a CAPI VP28 lately and am pretty impressed by that on everything I've paired it with - vocals, drums, guitars, ribbon mics, condersers....
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losthighway
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Re: Neve flavor

Post by losthighway » Wed May 06, 2020 6:48 pm

I've got two channels of Great River's 500 model. I've probably been using them for a decade now. They just sound great, all the time. They have warmth, but never in that wooly, wouldn't-want-to-stack-too-many-tracks-with-this-sound type of way. There's still plenty of clear top end. The impedance button opens up my ribbon mics nicely.

They sit next to multiple channels of Chandler, API and Sytek to give you a feel for the contrast I'm used to hearing them with. Only used a real Neve on a couple sessions so I can't say how similar they are with any authority.

All said, this is one of those pieces of gear that's been in my studio long enough, and my affection for it is still great enough that I wouldn't imagine I'll ever part with them.

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Nick Sevilla
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Re: Neve flavor

Post by Nick Sevilla » Thu May 07, 2020 1:29 am

kayagum wrote:
Wed May 06, 2020 5:26 pm
Not desperate, more curious:
Anything I’m truly missing using Neve flavored preamps, especially for acoustic guitar?
I have been using a WA 412 and having lots of fun with it, especially trying different compressors with it.
What say you all? Less interested in drum applications, more other instruments.
I used a Neve console for over 5 years recording anything and everything. Serial number A725, ordered in 1974 by George Martin himself for one of their studios in England. When it came to acoustic guitars, I would always be CONSERVATIVE on the levels, otherwise the Neve could make it sound a little too "woolly" and even a little distorted. The preamps on that console were 1081s, 1064s,and my favorites the 1066, which were precursors to the 1073, practically identical except for a few components and how it was wired internally (different gauge wiring et al.)

I preferred those 1066 preamps, this console had 16 of them. They are nearly impossible to get anymore, as they were replaced by the 1073 which was produced in more numbers.

Personally, I have always preferred cleaner preamps for acoustic guitars / harps / pianos. We ended up getting a Summit Audio MPE200, also Neve designed, but A LOT CLEANER. Much better for these sorts of instruments. The clients, at least, were happier.

I do not think you are missing much. You and many other people need to understand and even research "The Neve Sound" a lot more, look up records produced by engineers who recorded on those beasts from the 1970s, and really, REALLY listen critically. Neves of that era are a "thick" sound, a "smeared" sound, they were great for making sounds FATTER (widening the transients and overall harmonic content of a sound) using harmonic distortion (which Neve himself always hated...his newest stuff is the cleanest, least "Vintage Neve" sounding out there, he had to do the Shelford stuff to give people that harmonic distortion back).

Basically, Neve = Harmonic distortion that rockers love. Classical players can love or hate it, Jazz also can love or hate it.
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Re: Neve flavor

Post by vvv » Thu May 07, 2020 10:55 am

That info about Neve hating the distortion puts me in mind of Leo Fender ...
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Re: Neve flavor

Post by drumsound » Sat May 09, 2020 11:15 am

Its true, Rupert was always trying to make truer, wire with gain, type things. I have a friend who works at RND who once told me that Rupert is completely confounded as to why anyone would want his old designs. On the Puremix "between 2 Beards" free streams they had Josh Thomas from RND on and he goes through Rupert's timeline and discusses that as well.

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Recycled_Brains
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Re: Neve flavor

Post by Recycled_Brains » Sat May 09, 2020 8:58 pm

I'm honestly never blown away when I use API preamps. I'll take a Neve (or neve-like thing), Chandler or Daking any day over API.

The best non-Neve "neve" I've used is the Hairball Copper. Once in addition to 14 channels of vintage 1073/1066. They are for real. I have 2. If I needed a lot of preamps, I'd have more. Even pre-built, the price is right.

The Great Rivers are really sick too. I love them on guitars. The "load" an impedance switches are like having an EQ.
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markjazzbassist
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Re: Neve flavor

Post by markjazzbassist » Sun May 10, 2020 7:36 am

Recycled_Brains wrote:
Sat May 09, 2020 8:58 pm
I'm honestly never blown away when I use API preamps. I'll take a Neve (or neve-like thing), Chandler or Daking any day over API.

The best non-Neve "neve" I've used is the Hairball Copper. Once in addition to 14 channels of vintage 1073/1066. They are for real. I have 2. If I needed a lot of preamps, I'd have more. Even pre-built, the price is right.

The Great Rivers are really sick too. I love them on guitars. The "load" an impedance switches are like having an EQ.
same here, recorded a couple records at a super high end studio and he ran the bass through API and i hated it. the mids were just ugh, no thank you.

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Nick Sevilla
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Re: Neve flavor

Post by Nick Sevilla » Sun May 10, 2020 1:11 pm

markjazzbassist wrote:
Sun May 10, 2020 7:36 am
same here, recorded a couple records at a super high end studio and he ran the bass through API and i hated it. the mids were just ugh, no thank you.
LOL, APIs are not really for Bass though... for electric guitars they can be stellar.

Also, it's the driver, not the car, in most cases.
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Re: Neve flavor

Post by Recycled_Brains » Sun May 10, 2020 2:36 pm

Nick Sevilla wrote:
Sun May 10, 2020 1:11 pm
markjazzbassist wrote:
Sun May 10, 2020 7:36 am
same here, recorded a couple records at a super high end studio and he ran the bass through API and i hated it. the mids were just ugh, no thank you.
LOL, APIs are not really for Bass though... for electric guitars they can be stellar.

Also, it's the driver, not the car, in most cases.
It's interesting because the one place I do actually like the the preamps is on bass. To my ears, the others I mentioned clown them on guitars and drums though (which is where everyone raves about API seemingly). I'm speaking specifically about the modern 512 / 3124. Haven't used any others.

The EQ's are cool. I have some CAPI's that sound good, though in the case of my pair of 553F inductor EQ's it took putting in Quad Eight style op amps for me to get into them. My LC25 has a traditional API set up and it's parked on the bass channel when I mix. 560 is my favorite for bass drum. I think that's one of the better UAD plugins too.
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losthighway
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Re: Neve flavor

Post by losthighway » Sun May 10, 2020 8:46 pm

I can use an API 3124 for pretty much everything. It's like the middle ground for me- pretty clean, but just a little extra muscle in the mids. They're usually 80%- 100% of my drum channels.

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Re: Neve flavor

Post by DrummerMan » Mon May 11, 2020 2:32 pm

joninc wrote:
Wed May 06, 2020 6:37 pm

I've been playing with a CAPI VP28 lately and am pretty impressed by that on everything I've paired it with - vocals, drums, guitars, ribbon mics, condersers....
I've had 2 of these for a few years. They really sound fantastic. I generally put them on kick and snare but I've also done guitar amps and vocals with them and always sound just like I want them to pretty much right away. Granted I do a lot of 70's rock sounding stuff now so they're a good fit for that, but I feel like if I need them to be a little less forward I can just back off the input gain and they're relatively neutral sounding.
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markjazzbassist
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Re: Neve flavor

Post by markjazzbassist » Tue May 12, 2020 6:06 am

do you run a commerical or semi-commercial studio where clients will ask for neve? if so, then yeah get some. but if you're just recording yourself and friends, be different, everyone uses API and Neve and 1176 and the like. try some other gear, make new sonic signatures. that's what i'm trying to do.

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Re: Neve flavor

Post by vvv » Tue May 12, 2020 9:00 am

This is something I wanna write more in-depth about, the "be different" thing.

I fight this all the time - conventional, even catalog, sounds vs. the unique.

Context is everything, of course, and I doubt an all-Behringer studio is gonna get me there.

On the other hand, while I play Jazz and P's and fretless, I also play 8-string and 2-string slide, and Bass VI. Not just Strats and Pauls and Teles, but various thinlines and sustainers and I even have a fretless guitar. I mix and match amps and DI and emulators ...

I think, working in a genre - to the extent you wanna be in that genre - you can break some of the conventions/"rules" with impunity, but not all.

But yeah, Neve and API, etc. are touchstones and useful even for the self-recordist, but changing up pres and comps are changes that, however subtle or obvious, can personalize the result. Same with mics.

Now, an all-ART studio ... :twisted:
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