DI bass and guitar

Recording Techniques, People Skills, Gear, Recording Spaces, Computers, and DIY

Moderators: drumsound, tomb

winky dinglehoffer
buyin' gear
Posts: 522
Joined: Wed May 07, 2003 12:08 pm
Location: ATL

Re: DI bass and guitar

Post by winky dinglehoffer » Fri May 15, 2020 8:39 pm

My guitar "DI" of late has been a Sound Workshop 242 Spring Reverb. Very limited range, but if you're into heavily distorted, highly reverberant guitar, it does pretty good.

User avatar
markjazzbassist
re-cappin' neve
Posts: 781
Joined: Mon Apr 25, 2011 11:33 am
Location: Lakewood, OH

Re: DI bass and guitar

Post by markjazzbassist » Sat May 16, 2020 7:30 am

Scodiddly wrote:
Fri May 15, 2020 5:04 pm
The older I get the less fussy I am about bass guitar tone, so count me in the DI crowd.

And I only change strings when I break them, but I never break strings. Checkmate, markjazzbassist!
haha well done

User avatar
A.David.MacKinnon
ghost haunting audio students
Posts: 3413
Joined: Wed May 07, 2003 5:57 am
Location: Toronto
Contact:

Re: DI bass and guitar

Post by A.David.MacKinnon » Sat May 16, 2020 7:59 am

vvv wrote:
Fri May 15, 2020 12:37 pm
a.David.Mckinnon: I have a MicroCab that I never used to like on bass but haven't tried in years - mebbe I shall ...
It's pretty good but I think the B15 pre-amp is where the real mojo is in that chain. Between the two I'm able to flip switches and turn knobs in real time until I get what I want. It's a godsend when I'm mixing other people's DI bass tracks too.

User avatar
vvv
zen recordist
Posts: 9009
Joined: Tue May 13, 2003 8:08 am
Location: Chi
Contact:

Re: DI bass and guitar

Post by vvv » Sat May 16, 2020 9:52 am

drumsound: the sara Quah link is bad, goes to the log-in.n Still gonna try the VLA, thanks.

ks-light: too weird for me, bro'

scodiddly: "And I only change strings when I break them, but I never break strings." Same here, I've only ever broken a couple, and 1 was while over-tuning.

winky d: I am into "heavily distorted, highly reverberant guitar" Gotta link?

a.David.Mckinnon: I'd like a B15, but then I'd like a SVT of some sort. Ever feel like ya got where ya are by kinda makin' the choices ya did? Still gonna try the microcab, thanks.
bandcamp; vlayman;
THD; Geronimo Cowboys;
blog.
I mix with olive juice.

winky dinglehoffer
buyin' gear
Posts: 522
Joined: Wed May 07, 2003 12:08 pm
Location: ATL

Re: DI bass and guitar

Post by winky dinglehoffer » Sat May 16, 2020 12:40 pm

vvv wrote:
Sat May 16, 2020 9:52 am
winky d: I am into "heavily distorted, highly reverberant guitar" Gotta link?
Skip to 3:40 in this track: https://soundcloud.com/user-109157517/breadbox. (The little solo is the only guitar in the whole song.) The bass is DI as well, but it's just run through the instrument input on my interface.

User avatar
vernier
gettin' sounds
Posts: 140
Joined: Sun Jun 22, 2003 6:40 pm
Location: USA
Contact:

Re: DI bass and guitar

Post by vernier » Sat May 16, 2020 1:01 pm

Sometimes DI totally dry and clean. Sometimes mic on amp. Other times just fuzz pedal direct to recorder.

User avatar
Snarl 12/8
ghost haunting audio students
Posts: 3403
Joined: Sat Dec 20, 2008 5:01 pm
Location: Right Cheer
Contact:

Re: DI bass and guitar

Post by Snarl 12/8 » Sun May 17, 2020 10:58 pm

I've been recording and actually just sortof jamming with myself a lot recently and using exclusively DI bass and guitar and I've been loving it. I have 3 amps and a small variety of speakers to choose from, all of which I love the sound of, but the DI thing has just been great for my workflow, basically. Such as it is.

The chain is my Charvel (90's early Japan model), but with all swapped out pickups or my Yamaha (same vintage) Bass into my Butler Blue Tube pedal (which is often not on) then my Ashly BP-41 with a modded first opamp (which kinda feeds the DI stage) into Allen & Heath GL2400 preamp, line level on the insert of the channel I have my Tube Art Compressor(ProVLA 2?). I've got stereo delay, my Yamaha Rev 7 and a RAT pedal on the auxes of the mixer and I dial in different amounts of things depending on how trippy I want it to sound.

A lot of the time I use the Rev 7 as a bitcrusher. (I got the idea from this https://youtu.be/fpb3KpWVWKw?t=1466 , not that they were going direct) I use a really fast, short setting a lot and pan it opposite the actual guitar. It can be as thick and crazy as you want. The GL2400 forces you to bring effects back on actual channels of the mixer(as far as I can tell), so I can also send the rev 7 back to itself, or send the RAT pedal track to the rev 7 and then feed the rev 7 a bit back to rat pedal to get bizarre resonances.

All that being said, I really think the Ashly BP41 is the key to the setup. That thing is just so solid and clear sounding. Another thing that I think I've noticed is that the opamp stages in the Allen & Heath remind me of little guitar amps. I feel like they have a very "linear" progression of distortion as you push and they definitely break up when you push them with all kinds of interactions with later stages of the mixer. There's a ton of useful drive and fuzz and sheen that you can add through the gain staging on that thing. To my ears. Hopefully I'm not wrong about that.

The Allen and Heath has actually led me to some intense contemplation of opamps. I've decided they are very creepy things, but I love them. Transformers are somehow less creepy to me, and I love them too. Anyway, between the Butler, the A&H opamps, the slow Tube squeeze from the art and the resonances I'm getting from the Verbs and such it feels like I'm playing an amp in a room to me a lot of the time. It sounds abstract and cab-like to me at the same time. Anyway, I've been happy in my headphones, late at night, doing that shit lately.

Sorry for the long shpiel, but I've just been so happy with this direct guitar and bass setup lately that I figured I better share since the topic came up.
Carl Keil

Almost forgot: Please steal my drum tracks. and more.

User avatar
vvv
zen recordist
Posts: 9009
Joined: Tue May 13, 2003 8:08 am
Location: Chi
Contact:

Re: DI bass and guitar

Post by vvv » Mon May 18, 2020 10:46 am

winky d: "Charles Nelson Reilly" is just a perfect goth name-check! Cool song, and yep, I like that guitar sound.

vernier: fuzz as DI is a thing, yep.

snarl: they do say playing with yerself can be healthy. :twisted: I have one of those blue tubes, also - interesting bass sound; I bought it onna reco from talkbass, but also because I have the yellow one, and Rick Rizzo used to dime it into his dimed Twin and ... :hearts:
bandcamp; vlayman;
THD; Geronimo Cowboys;
blog.
I mix with olive juice.

drumsound
zen recordist
Posts: 6875
Joined: Tue Jun 01, 2004 10:30 pm
Location: Bloomington IL
Contact:

Re: DI bass and guitar

Post by drumsound » Mon May 18, 2020 12:44 pm

vvv wrote:
Sat May 16, 2020 9:52 am
drumsound: the sara Quah link is bad, goes to the log-in.n Still gonna try the VLA, thanks.
Thanks for letting me know. Should be fixed now.

https://saraquah.bandcamp.com/album/taking-me-back

User avatar
joninc
deaf.
Posts: 1964
Joined: Mon Jun 09, 2003 5:02 pm
Location: canada
Contact:

Re: DI bass and guitar

Post by joninc » Mon May 18, 2020 3:10 pm

I've been doing more and more DI guitar over the past few years - I use the DI inputs on the chandler TG2 .. sometimes just because it's faster but sometimes because it has a different sound that can be more interesting or unique... I've used this a lot for synths and it's a great pre to drive a little.

recently i did some remote guitar session work for a friend and tracked the DI as well as the amp and was surprised how natural and great the DI sounded... totally usable and not at all plasticy or 1 dimentional.

And in the past i've been the guy who would NEVER choose a DI for guitar over an amp - unless going for transistory fuzz on a solo or something.
the new rules : there are no rules

cgarges
zen recordist
Posts: 10865
Joined: Mon Jun 16, 2003 1:26 am
Location: Charlotte, NC
Contact:

Re: DI bass and guitar

Post by cgarges » Wed May 20, 2020 12:46 am

I usually just use a DI (usually an old Retrospec Juice Box tube DI), because it sounds ridiculously awesome and I can then dedicate my iso booths to either amps and vocals or drums and vocals or whatever. If there's room, I LOVE recording an amp and have a beautiful B15N or will use whatever. But it usually winds up being that Juice Box. If I need to in the mix, I can reamp, use something like Decapitator or a SansAmp plugin, or use one of the UA Ampeg amp simulators. If I'm just doing a simple bass overdub in the control room, I'll usually just plug directly into the front of either an API 512V, a Buzz Elixir, an AwTAC, or in some cases, a Neve 1272. I haven't really had any complaints about the bass sound at mix time in years.

I usually compress a bit on the way in, usually with an AwTAC Channel Compressor, Federal AM-864/U, an 1176 (I've got the Purple MC76), a GML 8900, an ADR Compex, or a Distressor. I rarely EQ on the way in, but if I do, it's usually the AwTAC, an API 560b, a Blonder Tongue Audio Baton, or a Pultec.

Chris Garges
Charlotte, NC

User avatar
joninc
deaf.
Posts: 1964
Joined: Mon Jun 09, 2003 5:02 pm
Location: canada
Contact:

Re: DI bass and guitar

Post by joninc » Tue May 26, 2020 6:08 pm

A.David.MacKinnon wrote:
Sat May 16, 2020 7:59 am
It's pretty good but I think the B15 pre-amp is where the real mojo is in that chain. Between the two I'm able to flip switches and turn knobs in real time until I get what I want. It's a godsend when I'm mixing other people's DI bass tracks too.
hey Dave - any tips on how to use a B15 head in this way? I have one and had my tech build a little box that I can run the amp head to (to take the speaker load), and then come out of there into a preamp. I've actually never tried going straight out of it into a preamp until now (i mainly use the box for sending other stuff outta my B15 or AC30 heads into the leslie) but it's hella noisey.. tons of hiss and hum - too much to use for sure.

Do you even need a preamp after that box is does it have enought to go straight into a converter?

any ideas on what is the problem in my scenario? Do you use a different output from the head rather than the speaker cable?
the new rules : there are no rules

User avatar
losthighway
dead but not forgotten
Posts: 2006
Joined: Mon Apr 14, 2008 8:02 pm
Contact:

Re: DI bass and guitar

Post by losthighway » Tue May 26, 2020 7:59 pm

I was focused on the bass angle, but I gotta say fuzz box guitar DI is one of those sounds that so instantly triggers sense memories of records I've heard since I was a kid. It's weird it took me this long to use it. It's a very specific flavor that would get annoying if it was used on every song, but for the right single note guitar part, or guitar harmony..... magic.

User avatar
A.David.MacKinnon
ghost haunting audio students
Posts: 3413
Joined: Wed May 07, 2003 5:57 am
Location: Toronto
Contact:

Re: DI bass and guitar

Post by A.David.MacKinnon » Wed May 27, 2020 6:00 am

joninc wrote:
Tue May 26, 2020 6:08 pm
A.David.MacKinnon wrote:
Sat May 16, 2020 7:59 am
It's pretty good but I think the B15 pre-amp is where the real mojo is in that chain. Between the two I'm able to flip switches and turn knobs in real time until I get what I want. It's a godsend when I'm mixing other people's DI bass tracks too.
hey Dave - any tips on how to use a B15 head in this way? I have one and had my tech build a little box that I can run the amp head to (to take the speaker load), and then come out of there into a preamp. I've actually never tried going straight out of it into a preamp until now (i mainly use the box for sending other stuff outta my B15 or AC30 heads into the leslie) but it's hella noisey.. tons of hiss and hum - too much to use for sure.

Do you even need a preamp after that box is does it have enought to go straight into a converter?

any ideas on what is the problem in my scenario? Do you use a different output from the head rather than the speaker cable?
Hey Jon
Your b15 should have a preamp out. I think it’s called ext. amp. It was originally designed so players could daisy chain extra b15s. It’s a direct feed from the pre-amp section. You’ll still need a speaker connected but you can put the amp into standby to mute the speaker and the pre out will still work. Run it to a direct box and then to the pre of your choice.

My b15 clone is just the preamp section but I do this trick often at studios with real b15s. Sometimes it’s better than the speaker sometimes not. It’s a lifesaver if you want the b15 tone but the speaker is ratty or the cab rattles too much to use (it’s amazing how many vintage b15s I find in this condition). It's also great in situations where drum bleed into the bass mic is a problem and there's no easy way to isolate the amp.

User avatar
joninc
deaf.
Posts: 1964
Joined: Mon Jun 09, 2003 5:02 pm
Location: canada
Contact:

Re: DI bass and guitar

Post by joninc » Wed May 27, 2020 11:07 am

awesome - I'm gonna try this soon!

side note - Do you think it affects the sound coming out of the speakers a lot to not have the head on top (thus making it a "closed" cab)?

I've had the head off the cab for the past 6 years and it seems to work fine.... btw mine used to be a lot rattlier too but i replaced the gasket and it is pretty quiet now at reasonable volumes.
the new rules : there are no rules

Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 60 guests