Cabling: What's the cheapest 24 channel TRS snake you'd buy?

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Cabling: What's the cheapest 24 channel TRS snake you'd buy?

Post by Snarl 12/8 » Sat Jun 13, 2020 3:37 pm

I need a 24 channel TRS snake. My wallet is trying to convince me to go HOSA, my bougie side wants Canare Starquad and Neutrik connectors (or some similar shit). Anyone figure out the bang-for-the-buck patch snake choice? I'm not going far, 6-8ft, it's all balanced on both ends, but I really believe that good cables sound better and solve problems before they start.

Recommendations?

Thanks all.

ck
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Re: Cabling: What's the cheapest 24 channel TRS snake you'd buy?

Post by kslight » Sat Jun 13, 2020 4:07 pm

I’ve used several 8 channel snakes from hosa and monoprice. They work but i wouldn’t use them for heavy duty stuff but they work for behind the rack stuff.

I’ve also built some 8 channel snakes using Flexygy flat cable. Those weren’t super expensive to build but took some time...

I’m not gifted enough to notice a sonic difference between any of them.

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Re: Cabling: What's the cheapest 24 channel TRS snake you'd buy?

Post by jimjazzdad » Sun Jun 14, 2020 4:53 am

The robustness of the connections is the important consideration. Hosa etc. is fine for "behind the rack" life but the molded strain relief at the connectors will beak with heavy use (plugging/unplugging). Hard to go wrong with anything using Neutrik connectors. The multicore wire is probably not as important a choice unless you buy in to mystic, audiophile stuff...and if you do and have the golden ears to match, you won't be taking my advice anyway. FWIW, Canare Star Quad, while great at rejecting noise, reportedly attenuates stuff >20 kHz.
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Re: Cabling: What's the cheapest 24 channel TRS snake you'd buy?

Post by vvv » Sun Jun 14, 2020 9:39 am

FWIW, I have two 25+ y.o. Hosa 8 channel TS in constant use the whole time, but they are behind the rack.
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Re: Cabling: What's the cheapest 24 channel TRS snake you'd buy?

Post by Nick Sevilla » Sun Jun 14, 2020 9:44 am

If you are installing in a studio, HOSA is fine.

Otherwise, look about for something better for touring.
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Re: Cabling: What's the cheapest 24 channel TRS snake you'd buy?

Post by digitaldrummer » Sun Jun 14, 2020 10:44 am

if your handy with the soldering iron, Redco sells the goods and you can make your own with high quality parts for less bucks. otherwise, agree that Hosa/Seismic/monoprice will work if you don't move them around.

I also have one of these -- https://www.audiopile.net/PSX-12 that I use for a drums snake in the studio. it mostly never gets moved but has been doing fine. In fact I think I got the recommendation from here on this board several years ago.

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Re: Cabling: What's the cheapest 24 channel TRS snake you'd buy?

Post by gregovertone » Sun Jun 14, 2020 11:59 am

Nick Sevilla wrote:
Sun Jun 14, 2020 9:44 am
If you are installing in a studio, HOSA is fine.

Otherwise, look about for something better for touring.


Eric Valentine said just this.

He put hosa in topangadise......and if he's okay with it....I trust him :D
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Re: Cabling: What's the cheapest 24 channel TRS snake you'd buy?

Post by Snarl 12/8 » Mon Jun 15, 2020 1:58 pm

These replies made me realize a couple things.

I've had Hosa cables since around 1985. (I just googled to see if this was even possible and Hosa's been around since 1984). I think my prejudice might be because recently I've had a few fail on me, but they might be 35 years old[!], so maybe I gotta discount that recent failure rate.

The other thing I wanted to say is that I can hear the difference between different TS cables used between guitar and amp. I can't say I've ever consciously heard the difference between balanced cables before. But the differences I've heard in TS cables have been so big sometimes that it's really made me wonder about the effects of cable quality across the board.

I hope that makes sense.

I bought some Seismic Audio snakes that have "servicable ends" for very cheap. I hope they work good.

Thanks for sharing your views on this.

ck
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Re: Cabling: What's the cheapest 24 channel TRS snake you'd buy?

Post by vvv » Mon Jun 15, 2020 5:43 pm

Gotta ask:

To the extent you hear differences, are they qualitative?

Quantifiably better or worse?

Have you A-B'd? (ABX'd?)

Lemme note that I think differences needn't always be necessarily audible - feel/response and even confidence are certainly valid concerns.
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Re: Cabling: What's the cheapest 24 channel TRS snake you'd buy?

Post by Snarl 12/8 » Mon Jun 15, 2020 7:00 pm

vvv wrote:
Mon Jun 15, 2020 5:43 pm
Gotta ask:

To the extent you hear differences, are they qualitative?

Quantifiably better or worse?

Have you A-B'd? (ABX'd?)

Lemme note that I think differences needn't always be necessarily audible - feel/response and even confidence are certainly valid concerns.
You haven't heard differences in guitar cables? I thought this was a commonly known thing. I always call it "capacitance" when I hear it, but I'm sure it's more complicated than that. It could have something to do with how it fits the jacks in my vintage guitars and basses. Mostly it's just a little high end loss in certain cables. Definitely longer ones, but I've been surprised that some brand new, pretty short (10' or so) guitar cables sound murkier than some of my older, longer ones. There's some cables that I love for lots of palm-mute kinda stuff, more immediacy it feels like. I've also had cables sound "darker" on one guitar and then fine on another. And this is all among cheap cables of unkown origins. I don't think I've ever spent more than $30 on a guitar cable. And sometimes the rolled off cable is useful. I made myself some home-made guitar cables using old Belden (I think, but decent, heavy) balanced wire. I doubled the signal wires to the tip connection on both ends in a nod to how you wire up Star-quad in mic cables. But I gotta say, for as solid as those cables are, they just sound meh to me. A couple of my oldest, kinda longest, cheapo guitar cables I have sound the clearest to me.

Once you patch a guitar into an amp, it's a system and it all matters. Like how it would matter what wire and routing you used for interconnects within the amp or within the guitar. That's my view.

You guys all think I'm high? I definitely have hearing damage. There's a faint ringing a lot of the time if I listen for it. But I've also heard real things that others weren't hearing. I used to (when they existed) be able to hear certain CRT monitors when they were on in the same room as me. Even if I couldn't see them. There's a high pitched whine. Pot is also legal where I'm at.

ck
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Re: Cabling: What's the cheapest 24 channel TRS snake you'd buy?

Post by markjazzbassist » Tue Jun 16, 2020 5:43 am

this is a great article for TS cables.

http://www.ovnilab.com/articles/cables.shtml

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Re: Cabling: What's the cheapest 24 channel TRS snake you'd buy?

Post by vvv » Wed Jun 17, 2020 11:43 pm

Snarl: Yes, I've heard the difference between cables at times; I guess my point was I never found the difference so large as to be a factor in whether I use it or not, or even choose to use one vs. the other. Convenience, length, sturdiness, the jacks, appearance - those all come in to play for me. They just never sound that different.

I understand "capacitance" as you are using it to be like the high-end roll-off effect, like the difference (which is usually audible) between a 6' and a 25' cable.

I recorded a bunch of guitar tracks (OK, Bass VI) today. My Ampeg VT60 was in another room and I used a fabric-wrapped 30' cable from my board to the amp, with a 6' curly between the axe and the board.

I could likely hear a slight roll-off of highs when I turned the pedals off; didn't bother to adjust for it - it's what the rig sounds like. Besides, I had FX going for every track (15-20 or so).

It might make more difference to me for a microphone, but it hasn't yet in 30 years ... :twisted:
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Re: Cabling: What's the cheapest 24 channel TRS snake you'd buy?

Post by vvv » Wed Jun 17, 2020 11:49 pm

markjazzbassist wrote:
Tue Jun 16, 2020 5:43 am
this is a great article for TS cables.

http://www.ovnilab.com/articles/cables.shtml
Yeah, that site's compressor reviews is invaluable. He's a cool guy, posts over at talkbass ...
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Re: Cabling: What's the cheapest 24 channel TRS snake you'd buy?

Post by Recycled_Brains » Thu Jun 18, 2020 9:34 am

I like Redco's house brand stuff.

I think Hosa is totally fine though, especially if you're not going to be plugging and un-plugging and working the connectors with any regularity. I used a Hosa snake for many years before I got my patchbay and needed to get all new stuff and never had any issues.
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Re: Cabling: What's the cheapest 24 channel TRS snake you'd buy?

Post by Colorblind » Fri Jun 19, 2020 4:28 am

Snarl 12/8 wrote:
Mon Jun 15, 2020 7:00 pm
vvv wrote:
Mon Jun 15, 2020 5:43 pm
Gotta ask:

To the extent you hear differences, are they qualitative?

Quantifiably better or worse?

Have you A-B'd? (ABX'd?)

Lemme note that I think differences needn't always be necessarily audible - feel/response and even confidence are certainly valid concerns.
You haven't heard differences in guitar cables? I thought this was a commonly known thing. I always call it "capacitance" when I hear it, but I'm sure it's more complicated than that. It could have something to do with how it fits the jacks in my vintage guitars and basses. Mostly it's just a little high end loss in certain cables. Definitely longer ones, but I've been surprised that some brand new, pretty short (10' or so) guitar cables sound murkier than some of my older, longer ones. There's some cables that I love for lots of palm-mute kinda stuff, more immediacy it feels like. I've also had cables sound "darker" on one guitar and then fine on another. And this is all among cheap cables of unkown origins. I don't think I've ever spent more than $30 on a guitar cable. And sometimes the rolled off cable is useful. I made myself some home-made guitar cables using old Belden (I think, but decent, heavy) balanced wire. I doubled the signal wires to the tip connection on both ends in a nod to how you wire up Star-quad in mic cables. But I gotta say, for as solid as those cables are, they just sound meh to me. A couple of my oldest, kinda longest, cheapo guitar cables I have sound the clearest to me.

Once you patch a guitar into an amp, it's a system and it all matters. Like how it would matter what wire and routing you used for interconnects within the amp or within the guitar. That's my view.

You guys all think I'm high? I definitely have hearing damage. There's a faint ringing a lot of the time if I listen for it. But I've also heard real things that others weren't hearing. I used to (when they existed) be able to hear certain CRT monitors when they were on in the same room as me. Even if I couldn't see them. There's a high pitched whine. Pot is also legal where I'm at.

ck
Yep, I think you’re on the money with the capacitance thing. Not to turn this into the Eric Valentine thread, but he designed a variable capacitance cable a few years back. Seems super useful. Check it out: https://vimeo.com/140586277

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