leslie speakers and stereo recording

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joninc
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leslie speakers and stereo recording

Post by joninc » Mon Jul 13, 2020 10:00 am

hey all... i have a leslie 710 that I have been recording mostly just doing a stereo set of mics on the horns on either side of the leslie about 1.5 feet or so back... directly facing each other. (I don't usually bother with a bass mic as there's usually a strong bass presence on the song already and the organ isn't gonna have that much space in the low end)

mic --> leslie <-- mic

it sounds okay but lately I've realized that I really am not hearing any left to right stereo swishing motion on my recordings like i do on other recordings...

is the issue my particular leslie? I know it's not a holy grail 122 or 147 but the horn mechanism should be similar no?

Is there a better micing technique for capturing the sense of motion? would love some advice!
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Re: leslie speakers and stereo recording

Post by Rodgre » Mon Jul 13, 2020 10:17 am

Try getting the mics closer to the speaker fins. Having them 1.5' away is picking up more of a blend in the room. Closer mics will be more directional and have way more stereo separation, if that is what you're looking for.

Roger

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Re: leslie speakers and stereo recording

Post by A.David.MacKinnon » Mon Jul 13, 2020 10:33 am

Try micing the front and side instead of each side. If the leslie has twin horns pointing away from each other and you mic from the sides you'll get each horn passing each mic at the same time. If you mic from the front and side it'll be staggered and you'll hear more stereo effect.

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Re: leslie speakers and stereo recording

Post by Scodiddly » Mon Jul 13, 2020 12:47 pm

The box too plays a big part in the sound, a lot gets reflected around inside.

BTW only one of the two horns will have sound coming out of it. The other one is just there for balance.

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Re: leslie speakers and stereo recording

Post by Recycled_Brains » Mon Jul 13, 2020 3:55 pm

I agree with Rodgre's thought about the proximity of the mics. That was my first thought .

Tony (Drumsound) ran a guitar solo through his for me a while back and it sounds very stereo when I hard-pan the horn channels. His insight will be helpful.
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Re: leslie speakers and stereo recording

Post by A.David.MacKinnon » Mon Jul 13, 2020 9:59 pm

Scodiddly wrote:
Mon Jul 13, 2020 12:47 pm


BTW only one of the two horns will have sound coming out of it. The other one is just there for balance.
Huh! I retract my advice then.

Good to know

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Re: leslie speakers and stereo recording

Post by analogika » Tue Jul 14, 2020 8:01 am

My preference for the horn is across the open back of the Leslie (I always unscrew the back panel to the horn), about three inches from the horn diffusors, at about 90° to each other. 441s or 57s.
I prefer 90° to 180°, because I feel like the closer angle gives a clearer sense of rotation direction and depth, rather than just side-to-side motion.

The proximity gives a pretty hard stereo effect. You can balance that with some more distant stereo mics. (At least with a Leslie, you really don't have to be concerned with phase issues.)

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Re: leslie speakers and stereo recording

Post by drumsound » Tue Jul 14, 2020 11:43 am

A.David.MacKinnon wrote:
Mon Jul 13, 2020 9:59 pm
Scodiddly wrote:
Mon Jul 13, 2020 12:47 pm


BTW only one of the two horns will have sound coming out of it. The other one is just there for balance.
Huh! I retract my advice then.

Good to know
Actually, its still good advice. I can't remember who, but back in the early internet days (maybe even rec.audio.pro) Fletcher or Harvey Gerst suggested basically micing the corners, front and side, and it can be quite effective. What happens with that micing is it feels a little more circular than ping-pong left right, because of the sound coming for only one horn it kind of goes L>R>swoop around, L>R>swoop around. That gives a lopsided, boats on the water, out of round wheel feel.

I've done almost everything imaginable, including mics inside the cab with windscreen, room mics, mono, stereo mics higher, or lower than the horn. The bast part, they all sound good. Leslies are freaking magic.

Ryan, did i send you any pictures? i honestly don't remember what i did for you guitar solo.

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Re: leslie speakers and stereo recording

Post by drumsound » Tue Jul 14, 2020 11:48 am

drumsound wrote:
Tue Jul 14, 2020 11:43 am
A.David.MacKinnon wrote:
Mon Jul 13, 2020 9:59 pm
Scodiddly wrote:
Mon Jul 13, 2020 12:47 pm


BTW only one of the two horns will have sound coming out of it. The other one is just there for balance.
Huh! I retract my advice then.

Good to know
Actually, its still good advice. I can't remember who, but back in the early internet days (maybe even rec.audio.pro) Fletcher or Harvey Gerst suggested basically micing the corners, front and side, and it can be quite effective. What happens with that micing is it feels a little more circular than ping-pong left right, because of the sound coming for only one horn it kind of goes L>R>swoop around, L>R>swoop around. That gives a lopsided, boats on the water, out of round wheel feel.

I've done almost everything imaginable, including mics inside the cab with windscreen, room mics, mono, stereo mics higher, or lower than the horn. The bast part, they all sound good. Leslies are freaking magic.

Ryan, did i send you any pictures? i honestly don't remember what i did for you guitar solo.
I just looked through my phone and found pics I think are from Ryan's tracks. The date lines up Nov 2018. Looks like I used AT Pro37s on the top, one front and one back and an M88 on the bottom, with a pop filter. I had foam windscreens on the Pro37s. The mics are maybe 2 inches from the cabinet.

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Re: leslie speakers and stereo recording

Post by Recycled_Brains » Tue Jul 14, 2020 2:16 pm

drumsound wrote:
Tue Jul 14, 2020 11:48 am
drumsound wrote:
Tue Jul 14, 2020 11:43 am
A.David.MacKinnon wrote:
Mon Jul 13, 2020 9:59 pm


Huh! I retract my advice then.

Good to know
Actually, its still good advice. I can't remember who, but back in the early internet days (maybe even rec.audio.pro) Fletcher or Harvey Gerst suggested basically micing the corners, front and side, and it can be quite effective. What happens with that micing is it feels a little more circular than ping-pong left right, because of the sound coming for only one horn it kind of goes L>R>swoop around, L>R>swoop around. That gives a lopsided, boats on the water, out of round wheel feel.

I've done almost everything imaginable, including mics inside the cab with windscreen, room mics, mono, stereo mics higher, or lower than the horn. The bast part, they all sound good. Leslies are freaking magic.

Ryan, did i send you any pictures? i honestly don't remember what i did for you guitar solo.
I just looked through my phone and found pics I think are from Ryan's tracks. The date lines up Nov 2018. Looks like I used AT Pro37s on the top, one front and one back and an M88 on the bottom, with a pop filter. I had foam windscreens on the Pro37s. The mics are maybe 2 inches from the cabinet.
That's definitely what it was. I remember well you telling me that. No pics though. I just checked.

EDIT: Feel like it's worth noting that I did nothing to those tracks too. No EQ, no compression. Fed it to the reverb that everything else in the mix went through. That's all though.
Ryan Slowey
Albany, NY

http://maggotbrainny.bandcamp.com

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Re: leslie speakers and stereo recording

Post by drumsound » Tue Jul 14, 2020 9:36 pm

Recycled_Brains wrote:
Tue Jul 14, 2020 2:16 pm
drumsound wrote:
Tue Jul 14, 2020 11:48 am
drumsound wrote:
Tue Jul 14, 2020 11:43 am


Actually, its still good advice. I can't remember who, but back in the early internet days (maybe even rec.audio.pro) Fletcher or Harvey Gerst suggested basically micing the corners, front and side, and it can be quite effective. What happens with that micing is it feels a little more circular than ping-pong left right, because of the sound coming for only one horn it kind of goes L>R>swoop around, L>R>swoop around. That gives a lopsided, boats on the water, out of round wheel feel.

I've done almost everything imaginable, including mics inside the cab with windscreen, room mics, mono, stereo mics higher, or lower than the horn. The bast part, they all sound good. Leslies are freaking magic.

Ryan, did i send you any pictures? i honestly don't remember what i did for you guitar solo.
I just looked through my phone and found pics I think are from Ryan's tracks. The date lines up Nov 2018. Looks like I used AT Pro37s on the top, one front and one back and an M88 on the bottom, with a pop filter. I had foam windscreens on the Pro37s. The mics are maybe 2 inches from the cabinet.
That's definitely what it was. I remember well you telling me that. No pics though. I just checked.

EDIT: Feel like it's worth noting that I did nothing to those tracks too. No EQ, no compression. Fed it to the reverb that everything else in the mix went through. That's all though.
Like I said "leslies are magic!"

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Re: leslie speakers and stereo recording

Post by Nick Sevilla » Wed Jul 15, 2020 1:43 am

Yep, as others have stated on here,

1.5 feet away, is too far.

I've done the three mics on a Leslie thing with several different mic combos.

Always though, had the two top mics almost touching the cabinet, just like a guitar cabinet.

On the bottom I'd always try to have an LDC, the tops could be anything from SM57s to whatever expensive pencil mics,
like AKG 451s etc whichever studio had when I'd record there.

As to the position of the top mics, its best to experiment, to listen, to do a bit of test recording, find the best place for
the speed you'll be playing them at.
Howling at the neighbors. Hoping they have more mic cables.

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Re: leslie speakers and stereo recording

Post by apropos of nothing » Wed Jul 15, 2020 9:57 am

Anyone ever tried M/S with a Leslie? I feel like that could be pretty cool.

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Re: leslie speakers and stereo recording

Post by drumsound » Thu Jul 16, 2020 11:09 pm

apropos of nothing wrote:
Wed Jul 15, 2020 9:57 am
Anyone ever tried M/S with a Leslie? I feel like that could be pretty cool.
https://open.spotify.com/album/2HLY0DcXqIrTI6ZhpUTJXo
This has Hammond M/S with AA CM67se as mid and AA CM251 for side.

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Re: leslie speakers and stereo recording

Post by joninc » Tue Jul 28, 2020 10:19 am

thanks for the feedback guys - I did the corner set up as described and find I am liking that better... ironically, I used to do it that way and moved away from it for some reason.
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