Cymbals Eat Snare

[kslight]

I like to put up a spaced pair of SDC overheads "by the drummer" and pointed at the shells not the cymbals, instead of outside of the kit pointed at the cymbals the way some folks do it...if that makes sense.

[vernier]

Yep, drummer technique. And really good drummers usually have good sounding kits.

Another way is to leave cymbals out. Beatles sometimes overdubbed cymbals, and ABBA never had a crash. Or possibly ever a ride either, lol.

[floid]

Listen to the difference between nylon tips and wood sticks sometime. That's drastic.

Tip shape can make a big difference too - round vs oval vs acorn etc. And a stick with a longer shoulder/taper will have a different sound and feel. For the last few years I've been sanding the shoulder down on 5a to get the rebound I like.

[digitaldrummer]

My room is about 27'L x 16W with 8.5' ceilings. Treated with broadband absorption but not completely dead sounding.

8.5" ceiling is not bad, but extremely tall either - do you have treatment above and around the drums? might be more forgiving if there was?

[MoreSpaceEcho]

Before they listened he'd ask the guy how many times the drummer hit a crash.

Honky Tonk Women would be good song for that test. IIRC there's just the one at the end.

The song I'm working on right now is 18 minutes long, last night I counted the crashes. 18! One per minute seems like the right amount.

[digitaldrummer]

One per minute seems like the right amount.

Totally depends on the type of song/type of music though. Listen to "Tomorrow Never Knows". One continuous crash! Many earlier Van Halen songs, same thing. But appropriate for the songs...

[Colorblind]

My room is about 27'L x 16W with 8.5' ceilings. Treated with broadband absorption but not completely dead sounding.

8.5" ceiling is not bad, but extremely tall either - do you have treatment above and around the drums? might be more forgiving if there was?

Agreed, wish I had more height. There’s a small 2’ x 4’ cloud overhead, and the kit sits on a large rug. 4” of rigid mineral wool for absorption on the walls at the sides of the kit as well. I’ve got a larger 5x5 ceiling cloud in the middle of the room, but I’ve found that drums typically sound more full at the end of the room in question, generally speaking.

[digitaldrummer]

My room is about 27'L x 16W with 8.5' ceilings. Treated with broadband absorption but not completely dead sounding.

8.5" ceiling is not bad, but extremely tall either - do you have treatment above and around the drums? might be more forgiving if there was?

Agreed, wish I had more height. There’s a small 2’ x 4’ cloud overhead, and the kit sits on a large rug. 4” of rigid mineral wool for absorption on the walls at the sides of the kit as well. I’ve got a larger 5x5 ceiling cloud in the middle of the room, but I’ve found that drums typically sound more full at the end of the room in question, generally speaking.

cool, sounds like you have it covered then!

[MoreSpaceEcho]

Totally depends on the type of song/type of music though.

'Twas a joke.

Awhile back I did a cover of Metallica's cover of Blitzkrieg's "Blitzkrieg" (I never tire of writing that), I pretty much copped Lars' part (except, you know, in time) and I'm pretty sure there's more crashes on that one song than on all of my 3 solo records combined. Seriously.

AVH is a good example for this thread, no trouble hearing his snare even when he's washing away on a crash for the whole song.

[drumsound]

Totally depends on the type of song/type of music though.

'Twas a joke.

Awhile back I did a cover of Metallica's cover of Blitzkrieg's "Blitzkrieg" (I never tire of writing that), I pretty much copped Lars' part (except, you know, in time) and I'm pretty sure there's more crashes on that one song than on all of my 3 solo records combined. Seriously.

AVH is a good example for this thread, no trouble hearing his snare even when he's washing away on a crash for the whole song.

Let's say his left hand isn't shy! The giant sticks don't hurt either. The thing about AVH is that he is quite musical. I believe he even studied arranging. You can always hear his snare, because he wants it that way and plays it that way.

[Zacharia Matilda]

Nice to see AVH getting some love. His fills are so fluid. He’s always in there serving the song.

I’ll 2nd overdubbing cymbals. Not every drummer can do it but it allows you to flex in some unique ways. If I’m the drummer that’s the way I’ll do it every time.

[digitaldrummer]

this is a long video but RCM has some good insight on reverbs eating up certain sounds too (and just some good general mix tips too) and how to avoid that..

https://ronanchrismurphy.com/2020/08/24 ... is-murphy/

[Colorblind]

I've had some good results with overdubbing cymbals. It's nice to be able to pull the close mics back a bit without worrying about the extra cymbal bleed. The biggest challenge has been getting the drums and overdubbed cymbals to sound like one performance/take (if that's the goal).

[MoreSpaceEcho]

It's tough to do even for experienced drummers.

Bringing it back to AVH, they overdubbed cymbals on 1984. The only real drum on there is the snare, kick and toms are Simmons pads. Pretty sure he played the hihats live with the drums, all that stuff is mono, the cymbals are big and wide.

We should have a corollary thread to this one: big guitars eat kicks.

[vvv]

FWIW, it's said Grohl does it some. That QOTSA album, some Foos stuff ...