Alternatives to DAWs?

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soundsofcallado
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Alternatives to DAWs?

Post by soundsofcallado » Sun Oct 18, 2020 11:28 am

I hav been working in PT10 ever since it has been out. I don't dare update anything as I like what I have and I know that PT is now subscription based. I use and RME Fireface UFX as my interface and I love the setup. I have some decent plug ins and have always been able to do what I needed with this setup. One issue I have is the laptop I have PT on is so old it wouldn't update to the new PT anyway, so an additional expense of a new computer along with that upgrade. However, with digital things needing constant updates and the headaches those things bring, I am wondering what the consensus opinion is on getting away from DAWs.

I have been looking at the Tascam Model 24 and I am aware that is has many shortcomings in terms of inputs, aux sends and things of the like. Not a big fan of the one-button-for-all phantom power. But it seems like a solid piece of gear that will still allow me to do what I'm doing. I believe I read somewhere you can't mix on that thing using certain effects (the compressor maybe). But I am certainly interested in the idea of going back to analog setup or something like that in an effort to lesson the occasional grief of the DAW.

Thoughts?

Thank you.
Thank you.

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Re: Alternatives to DAWs?

Post by drumsound » Sun Oct 18, 2020 2:14 pm

I think what you need to do is look at your recent mixes and what it is you're doing in terms of inserts, effects, automation, track counts, editing, EVERYTHING. Then look at how the Tascame works and see how much you might lose going that route. There will be certain limitations, but they may be minor to YOUR workflow, or they might be deal breakers.

Another thing to consider is outboard gear. Do you have any? What will you need to buy in addition to the Tascam? One thing to remember is that your current system gives you options to do the same things. You may have several plugins that do the same thing that you chose based on desired outcome. On the Tascam there is the EQ built in, not 3-10 like many have in their plugin folders, for example.

numberthirty
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Re: Alternatives to DAWs?

Post by numberthirty » Sun Oct 18, 2020 2:16 pm

Is there a significant issue with maybe just shifting to a different DAW?

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digitaldrummer
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Re: Alternatives to DAWs?

Post by digitaldrummer » Mon Oct 19, 2020 6:15 am

what is it that you are not getting with your current setup?

I am currently covered under the Avid plan and it's not doing me a bit of good. I've reported a fatal bug in Pro Tools 2020 since the first build came out, have been going back and forth with Avid support and a slew of troubleshooting..., They have acknowledged there might be a fix in the works (and logs I have provided several times seem to indicate a bug in PT). But here it is in the middle of October 2020 and I'm still only able to run the 2019 builds. so I feel like I've completely wasted my money on the support plan. I'm 100% sure they are not going to extend my plan to compensate for the time lost.
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Re: Alternatives to DAWs?

Post by kslight » Mon Oct 19, 2020 8:11 am

digitaldrummer wrote:
Mon Oct 19, 2020 6:15 am
what is it that you are not getting with your current setup?

I am currently covered under the Avid plan and it's not doing me a bit of good. I've reported a fatal bug in Pro Tools 2020 since the first build came out, have been going back and forth with Avid support and a slew of troubleshooting..., They have acknowledged there might be a fix in the works (and logs I have provided several times seem to indicate a bug in PT). But here it is in the middle of October 2020 and I'm still only able to run the 2019 builds. so I feel like I've completely wasted my money on the support plan. I'm 100% sure they are not going to extend my plan to compensate for the time lost.
I allowed my plan to lapse in March.

kslight
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Re: Alternatives to DAWs?

Post by kslight » Mon Oct 19, 2020 8:18 am

It depends on your needs. Is your DAW used for basic recording and mixing or for editing, arrangement, etc..?

For me, a computer based DAW is going to be simpler to operate than something standalone...because complicated editing, midi, automation, syncing video, running plugins is important.


There are kind of two categories of products, like there is the MPC / Akai force / machine plus camp that are built for writing / arrangement / performance...in other words like a fancy sampler. And there are the digital mixer / recorder units like the Tascam you mentioned, that would probably be okay for a songwriter if you don’t need to really edit or use fancy plugins.

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Re: Alternatives to DAWs?

Post by soundsofcallado » Tue Oct 20, 2020 5:42 am

My PT set up isn't underserving me at all. I think the reason I am considering this move is more of a philosophical practice and, further, a new challenge. I am always challenged by PT and constantly trying to learn new ways to do things. The challenge of going in a more or less analog direction is a different challenge to me altogether as I have never had a set up like that. I don't intend to throw the baby out with the bathwater, I will keep the computer and things of the like around. I don't see the point in switching DAWs because I don't have any real reason to dislike PT.

All outboard gear I own now isn't traditional outboard gear as it is a mass load of pedals that I plan to use as such. But I am not against investing in a little gear to add to things. My frustration with PT, DAWs and really tech on whole, is the constant rate of updating that takes places. It is almost impossible to keep up with both in terms of practicality and fiscally for me. And if I like what I have, why update? Except that tech of the olden days has a way of puttering out. Then again, I suppose on any of the Tascam consoles there is probably firmware updates or something similar.

I don't believe I ever carried the PT insurance plan. Things like that always seem like a dubious investment. Once or twice, though, I have had to get with Sweetwater and pay them for their help; usually worth it.

Thanks all for the thoughts and replies.
Thank you.

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lucystoner.bandcamp.com
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soundsofcallado
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Re: Alternatives to DAWs?

Post by soundsofcallado » Tue Oct 20, 2020 5:42 am

My PT set up isn't underserving me at all. I think the reason I am considering this move is more of a philosophical practice and, further, a new challenge. I am always challenged by PT and constantly trying to learn new ways to do things. The challenge of going in a more or less analog direction is a different challenge to me altogether as I have never had a set up like that. I don't intend to throw the baby out with the bathwater, I will keep the computer and things of the like around. I don't see the point in switching DAWs because I don't have any real reason to dislike PT.

All outboard gear I own now isn't traditional outboard gear as it is a mass load of pedals that I plan to use as such. But I am not against investing in a little gear to add to things. My frustration with PT, DAWs and really tech on whole, is the constant rate of updating that takes places. It is almost impossible to keep up with both in terms of practicality and fiscally for me. And if I like what I have, why update? Except that tech of the olden days has a way of puttering out. Then again, I suppose on any of the Tascam consoles there is probably firmware updates or something similar.

I don't believe I ever carried the PT insurance plan. Things like that always seem like a dubious investment. Once or twice, though, I have had to get with Sweetwater and pay them for their help; usually worth it.

Thanks all for the thoughts and replies.
Thank you.

sweetsoundsrecords.bandcamp.com
lucystoner.bandcamp.com
oceanray.bandcamp.com

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A.David.MacKinnon
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Re: Alternatives to DAWs?

Post by A.David.MacKinnon » Tue Oct 20, 2020 6:16 am

I don't really see the point in chasing the latest version of any software unless there is a new (and provenly stable) upgrade with a feature set that you can't live without. I'm still running PT9 with no plans to upgrade any time soon. Clip gain would be nice to have but not worth buying a pile of new computer hardware to achieve. The system I have is about as bullet proof as you can get with Pro Tools and I've never felt like I'm missing anything.

If you want run older software for as long as possible I'd suggest moving away from a laptop and looking at a used Mac Pro tower that matches the specs of your current set-up. Those things will last far, far longer than a laptop and they are much more repairable.

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Re: Alternatives to DAWs?

Post by numberthirty » Tue Oct 20, 2020 7:31 am

soundsofcallado wrote:
Tue Oct 20, 2020 5:42 am
My PT set up isn't underserving me at all. I think the reason I am considering this move is more of a philosophical practice and, further, a new challenge. I am always challenged by PT and constantly trying to learn new ways to do things. The challenge of going in a more or less analog direction is a different challenge to me altogether as I have never had a set up like that. I don't intend to throw the baby out with the bathwater, I will keep the computer and things of the like around. I don't see the point in switching DAWs because I don't have any real reason to dislike PT.

All outboard gear I own now isn't traditional outboard gear as it is a mass load of pedals that I plan to use as such. But I am not against investing in a little gear to add to things. My frustration with PT, DAWs and really tech on whole, is the constant rate of updating that takes places. It is almost impossible to keep up with both in terms of practicality and fiscally for me. And if I like what I have, why update? Except that tech of the olden days has a way of puttering out. Then again, I suppose on any of the Tascam consoles there is probably firmware updates or something similar.

I don't believe I ever carried the PT insurance plan. Things like that always seem like a dubious investment. Once or twice, though, I have had to get with Sweetwater and pay them for their help; usually worth it.

Thanks all for the thoughts and replies.
Reaper.

"Fiscally..." is an utter non-issue. In addition, there's no real need to update if your current version is working and it will run like a champ on even the most roughed up/hurtin' computers.

Frustration?

It will be a thing of the past.

kslight
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Re: Alternatives to DAWs?

Post by kslight » Tue Oct 20, 2020 8:17 am

soundsofcallado wrote:
Tue Oct 20, 2020 5:42 am
My PT set up isn't underserving me at all. I think the reason I am considering this move is more of a philosophical practice and, further, a new challenge. I am always challenged by PT and constantly trying to learn new ways to do things. The challenge of going in a more or less analog direction is a different challenge to me altogether as I have never had a set up like that. I don't intend to throw the baby out with the bathwater, I will keep the computer and things of the like around. I don't see the point in switching DAWs because I don't have any real reason to dislike PT.

All outboard gear I own now isn't traditional outboard gear as it is a mass load of pedals that I plan to use as such. But I am not against investing in a little gear to add to things. My frustration with PT, DAWs and really tech on whole, is the constant rate of updating that takes places. It is almost impossible to keep up with both in terms of practicality and fiscally for me. And if I like what I have, why update? Except that tech of the olden days has a way of puttering out. Then again, I suppose on any of the Tascam consoles there is probably firmware updates or something similar.

I don't believe I ever carried the PT insurance plan. Things like that always seem like a dubious investment. Once or twice, though, I have had to get with Sweetwater and pay them for their help; usually worth it.

Thanks all for the thoughts and replies.
It isn’t a PT insurance plan, it is what Avid decided to put into place to punish their customers starting with 12 I think. Pay annually/monthly or pay 100% again if / when you decide to upgrade / when you buy a new computer. Then after they got users on that plan, they decided that wasn’t enough and doubled the cost. They also did not keep their end of the bargain (imho), very slow/unresponsive to update to the point I decided enough with them. I am not satisfied with their update frequency, do not require the latest pro tools or pro tools at all, and I am not a pro studio so the renewal costs just don’t make sense to me.


I get the desire to sometimes work without a daw to change perspective. I use a Tascam..388 for this process, and I have loads of keyboards/samplers/toys/ etc to help facilitate that.

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markjazzbassist
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Re: Alternatives to DAWs?

Post by markjazzbassist » Tue Oct 20, 2020 9:38 am

i got rid of pro tools and went to tape. first with a tascam 388 and now with a tascam 488. it has freed up the time for recording immensley. no longer am i screen browsing trying to setup a session, i just press ON, arm the tracks (everything is already plugged in and routed, permanently) and start being creative. i find i'm messing with sonics, pedals, and instruments more now, which is how it should be in my mind.

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Re: Alternatives to DAWs?

Post by MoreSpaceEcho » Tue Oct 20, 2020 9:46 am

numberthirty wrote:
Tue Oct 20, 2020 7:31 am
Reaper.

"Fiscally..." is an utter non-issue. In addition, there's no real need to update if your current version is working and it will run like a champ on even the most roughed up/hurtin' computers.

Frustration?

It will be a thing of the past.
+1000.

I can understand wanting to get away from a DAW for whatever reason, but going to some sort of stand-alone recorder seems like it'll just end up being a different sort of frustration.

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Re: Alternatives to DAWs?

Post by numberthirty » Tue Oct 20, 2020 3:43 pm

When it comes to a more "Hardware..." sort of a setup and suggestions as to what that setup should amount to?

It would honestly depend on detailed specifics of exactly where a person intended on winding up. While you can pretty easily go from "Keeping It Simple..." to "Beyond Overkill..." with a DAW based setup, that winds up being a whole other ballgame when you are looking at what that would entail as far as a hardware equivalent.

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Re: Alternatives to DAWs?

Post by digitaldrummer » Tue Oct 20, 2020 5:55 pm

on the subject of hardware...

I've gone back and forth on outboard equipment many times. Right now I have only 500 preamps, one DBX160x, one LA-610 (which I only mention because I can use the compressor w/o the preamp if I want) and everything else is in the box. Most of the outboard equipment that I bought (or was able to afford) would usually end up "as good" as the plugins I have, or not as good. In either case, I'd sell of the hardware and go back to the plugins (the UAD plugins won this battle several times). For some hardware, it may have been laziness on my part because it's so much easier to insert a plugin vs patching in hardware. And when I didn't really gain anything with the outboard, it just seemed like a no-brainer to part with it.

Also, getting rid of hardware and forcing myself to really dig into the software and plugins has been the best part. There is so much more beyond presets.
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