Planning for December DIY drum recording

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MoreSpaceEcho
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Re: Planning for December DIY drum recording

Post by MoreSpaceEcho » Mon Nov 02, 2020 8:33 am

JES wrote:
Sun Nov 01, 2020 2:30 pm
Also, hadn’t thought of combining a condenser and a ribbon for overheads....
They combine well, the m160 is more midrangey, the 4050 (I use a 4040 sometimes instead) is brighter, more hi-fi. Normally I have them both panned center, so the eq difference doesn't matter, but even panned it's not as drastic as you might think.

The m160 gets a nice kick thump in that right shoulder spot too. If I could only have one mic on a kit it'd be that one in that spot.

If you can rent that API use them on the overheads not the close tom mics.

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Re: Planning for December DIY drum recording

Post by drumsound » Mon Nov 02, 2020 10:41 am

When a drummer says they want a beefy floor tom. I'm close micing it every time. Large Diaphragm Condensers can work great here. I'm using X1ds on toms a lot and they are that sound for sure. The CAD 179 I've heard on other people's recordings sound good. They are about the only CAD mics I've heard that sound good... I wouldn't doubt the 4050 would sound good on a floor tom. I've put a U87 on a 16" floor tom before and it is amazing.

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Re: Planning for December DIY drum recording

Post by MoreSpaceEcho » Mon Nov 02, 2020 11:45 am

FWIW I don't always like a D112 on kick, but it's always worked great for me on floor tom.

Also IME the floor tom needs a close mic a lot more than the rack tom does. Usually plenty of rack tom in the overheads.

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Re: Planning for December DIY drum recording

Post by JES » Sun May 16, 2021 7:40 am

Hi Everyone,

Thanks for all the great suggestions on the thread. We turned out to be simply too tired to do this in December. But now that the school year is done, we are planning to do the drum recording this summer. The pandemic is still going, we won't be fully vaccinated until August, and we're both high risk, so even being in a studio with a careful engineer for a long time seems like a bad idea right now.

So, back to recording ourselves!

In looking back at the thread, I realized I got a lot of great answers regarding miss, but I wanted to follow up on pres. I would be happy not thinking too hard about the pres once I'm in the room so I could focus on mics and placement.

Assuming I rent the 3124v, and I have two great river 500NVs, a pair of FMR RNPs, and the two Pres on my RME interface, what would you recommend using, and where?

I'm kind of thinking either driven 3124s or GRs on kick and snare (we will try both), not driven APIs for overheads, and the other two leftover "fancy" pres for the two toms if I mic them. For weirdo room mic stuff, I suspect that matters less, but what do I know? I am not an experienced mic-er of drums.

I could also try and rent 8 channels of API and just do all of the drums through that, or more Neve-ish stuff. The rental place has lots of options. So suggestions are appreciated.

To recap on the mic plan:

We'll start out with fewer mics on drums: 1-2 overheads, kick, snare, room. We will add in toms if that's exciting to do. We will try out a few options for overheads, etc. We will check phase religiously. We will budget 1-2 days just to get a drum sound we like before actually recording music.

I'm going to post a separate thread on recording my instrument.

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Re: Planning for December DIY drum recording

Post by JES » Sun Jun 27, 2021 6:31 pm

Hi All,

I'm writing in two and a half days into recording. We are taking a long slow pregame, as we have everything until July 5th. this thread was very helpful.

The one bit of help I could use at this point is front-of-kit / room mic and where to put it. . The room is 323 square feet, with about 9' ceilings, give or take. The room is well treated but the drums are in the "live" end. We're got the kit mics and overheads set up how we want, and took drum sound's advice on phase, which worked great and was easy to hear.

Right now I've got an Avenson STO-2 about 3' in front of the kit, looking at the rim of the snare, and a little off centre from the bass drum. It's at a place that sounds good to my ears. But I'm finding it adds maybe a little "smear" to the snare. Closer, and it is like an extra outside-kick mic and we don't need that because the KSM-32 is doing a Very Good Job. I'm adding a "stunt mic" in a corner that sounds good, but any suggestions for what to try next on the front of kit mic would be appreciated.

We tried a pair of STO2s as a stereo pair (alternative to the stereo overheads) and decided we preferred the stereo overheads, but they sounded great in that role, so I know it's not the mic, it's the position.

Edit to say: MoreSpaceEcho, you were EXTREMELY right about the M160.

TIA.

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Re: Planning for December DIY drum recording

Post by vvv » Sun Jun 27, 2021 6:47 pm

Electrical Audio style - out front 10' + and spread right/left, on the floor? (They use PZMs, but mebbe not always.)

When I was recording in a large basement, I came to like a tube mic (Luna) about 20' out, 6' up, centered, sometimes smashed or sometimes not.

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Re: Planning for December DIY drum recording

Post by digitaldrummer » Mon Jun 28, 2021 6:53 am

are you recording only drums, or a whole band? if only drums, then you can put the mic wherever you want; wherever you think it sounds good. I have some cardioid room mics pointed at the corners of my room so they catch the reflections first. makes it sound a bit roomier. but they are meant for recording drums so I don't usually use them when there is a band tracking (just gets too much of everything else and makes it more difficult to overdub/replace tracks). sometimes I'll put a mic about 10 foot out. you may have to move it higher or lower to catch more or less cymbals (depending on what you want and what your room sounds like).

it's going to sound different in every room, and with every player, so there is not only one way to do it.
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Re: Planning for December DIY drum recording

Post by dave watkins » Wed Jun 30, 2021 9:54 am

I second taking whatever mic you have left and doing everything in your power to not point it at the kit. I feel like a lot of the time when I set up a front of kit mic, I mostly like how it sounds on it's own, but it doesn't do a whole lot for the overall mix of the kit. Not roomy/vibey enough for noticeable room sound, and I generally like the overall "picture" of the kit that I get from my overheads better, and when I start getting that front of kit mic up to a level where I can hear it in the context of the mix I usually want to turn it down, this is all dependent on the room and placement of course but more often than not, it just doesn't work for me personally. most of the time ymmv.

But a room mic that is not pointed at the source is incredibly useful, even in a small room that's not super lively. Just pushing it up underneath everything else subtly or smashing it judiciously can do a lot to reinforce the drum mix. I like cardioids for this, but i would imagine even an omni like an STO2 pointed away from the source at the other end of the room could be cool.

you could also try the old "crotch mic" position, pointed at the drummer peaking of the batter side of the kick near the snare, below the rack tom(s). can be cool when processed heavily and mixed in subtly if a room mic isn't doing it for you. Omni's are cool for this. Especially omni dynamics.

Also, sometimes another random mic in a room doesn't get you anywhere other than having something else to turn down when you start mixing and that's totally ok as long as everything else sounds rad.
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Re: Planning for December DIY drum recording

Post by JES » Wed Jul 07, 2021 8:41 am

Big thanks to everyone.

We spent 3 whole days just moving mics around and plugging them into preamps to see what's what. We then a little over 4 days tracking drums. Total luxury, and unlike a professional studio, we could feel good knocking off when we were tired (rather than being worried about "not using" our rented time).

I wound up with a SM58 in the far corner facing the wall, and with overcompression or distortion, it is like a "better" button for making the toms and fills bigger in choruses. I also left a STO-2 in front of the kit, which sounds great on its own, but I have to pick whether I want it to enhance the kick or snare in the mix (by flipping phase--more boom on the kick or more snap on the snare, but not both), so mostly it will be used for a special effect, and I'll use a reverb for room tone.

The rest of the setup, for the record:

Recorderman, with m160 over her right shoulder (star of the session) and AT 4050 over the snare (a little bright, might have to try 2 ribbons next time)
M201 top of snare, no bottom of snare needed.
SM 57 rack tom
SM 7 floor tom
Telefunken M82 in the kick (rented--was very impressed!)
KSM 32 in front of the kick
STO-2 about 4 feet in front of kit, snare height
SM58 in far corner of the room, pointed at some acoustic treatment on the opposite wall, facing away from the kit.

And I followed all the phase-checking instructions. Phase is pretty much everything.

We tried a bunch of other things we didn't like as much, but a couple runner up scenarios worth mentioning: a pair of STO-2 mics in front of the kit with the M160 overhead sounded very interesting. For a more minimal setup, this could be a good option (eg, no outside kick mic). M160 by itself as a single overhead also sounded great. I would consider getting a second for a pair.

We learned she prefers mics through Great River or Neve pres over API on almost everything, though of course the APIs sound great too. The Germanium (with the low boost on) delivered a positively massive outside kick drum sound with the KSM 32.

This thread has been super helpful. Thanks again everyone. The drums will be wonderfully easy to mix as a result of all this work and all your advice.

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Re: Planning for December DIY drum recording

Post by digitaldrummer » Wed Jul 07, 2021 10:20 am

I love that Telefunken M82 also. I've tried a lot of different mics on bass drum and it is my keeper (going into an Avedis MA5 which also sounds huge)
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