Drum overhead comparison in GJ setup

[digitaldrummer]

Happy New Year!

I had some time so I did a comparisons of different mics as drum overheads in a Glyn Johns setup. Thought I might share it since maybe others are curious too. Don't think of this as a shoot-out (don't even utter the words). It's not scientific. I setup mics, I measured (with a string I have taped off strategically as markers) to ensure equal distance from the snare. The kick and snare mic remained the same every time, although I did do this over a couple days so there's a chance the room changed slight due to temperature, etc.. also some mics had more or less output. I tried to get the overhead tracks at a similar level either by adjusting the preamps or using clip gain after the fact - but sometimes that might have meant I was pushing the preamp more - again NOT scientific. sorry this is what you get for free. I also used 2 different mics in some cases because I did not have pairs of those mics.

ok, here's the link (I hope it works for everyone)

https://soundcloud.com/user-339351714/s ... dObgBNCcLl

the "raw" tracks is with no processing. The "mixed" has plugin processing, parallel compression, reverb send, etc. like I was using it in a mix. These are 256Mb mp3's (hopefully Soundcloud doesn't mess them up). The "raw2" track is again the full kit with no processing, but this time I enabled the VMR modeling plugins for the Slate Digital mics (if you want to hear the mics alone with no plugin, then listen to "raw" - subtle difference but some). I also added an "overheads only" tracks on 1-2-2021. This is like the "raw2" track, but without the kick and snare mics. Also, the "mixed" plugin processing was static - meaning it did not change for each individual segment - it's the same settings for the whole series.

and here's more detail. the overhead preamps were a pair of A-Designs P1. The Kick pre is the Avedis MA5 and the snare pre is a Hairball Audio "Gold". the kick mic is always a Miktek PM11 and the snare mic is a Shure 57.

The kit is a vintage Ludwig 22/16/13 with 6.5x14 Ludwig hammered brass snare
Cymbals are Zildjian "Vintage" Cie 14" hats, 16/18" crashes, Zildjian Constantinople 22 med ride

There are 8 short segments. I played each one separately (again NOT scientific) and they did change slightly but I tried to play the same volume, etc. so it's pretty consistent.

ovhd setup as below (in order) = top (snare side)/bottom (floor tom side)

1. Warm Audio Wa87/Wa87
2. Mojave MA101fet/Ma201fet
3. Cascade (with Lundahl) Fathead/Fathead
4. Slate Digital ML-2/ML-2
5. Slate Digital ML-1/Warm Audio Wa87
6. Weird Audio W47 mod2/Nady TCM-1050 (modded to same specs as Advanced Audio CM47)
7. Mojave Ma200/Telefunken CU-29
8. Weird Audio W47 mod2/Weird Audio Little Red Monster

#4 used the S-67 model (Slate VMR plugin)
#5 used the FG-67 model
but remember I'm not using the Slate "clean" preamp so models are not 100% accurate (...and I don't care).
.

drumkit2.jpg (224.68 KiB) Viewed 3171 times

[losthighway]

This is cool, thanks for sharing.

I like those WA87s. They have just the right kind of bright. I think in comparison the Mojave Fets sound just a hair too bright. Still totally usable.

The mixed version of those fatheads would be perfect for something where you wanted the drums to sit just a little further back. Like a singer songwriter with a band type deal. I always think an un-eq'd ribbon is almost unfair. A lot of condensers you can put them up and they're almost where they'll be when they get mixed. A fathead doesn't even get started for me until I cut the lows a bit and do some cavalier boosting in the highs to a degree I almost never do on any other source.

Also your overall drum kit, tuning, room, drum sound is very nice. Good work going on in there, I can tell.

[Dok]

I've always thought that the WA87 is a great overhead mic, in fact I prefer it to my U87ai in the shootouts I've done.

[drumsound]

Cool stuff, Mike. Thanks for sharing.

[digitaldrummer]

I added a couple new tracks - "raw2" has the Slate Digital model plugin enabled. Forgot to do that, but then I thought it might be useful to hear the raw mics - which are actually pretty decent (especially the ML2's imo). Also added "overhead only" which solos the overhead mics only (instead of being mixed with the kick/snare mics). I was even a bit surprised how much kick/snare is covered by the overheads!

also, not sure if soundcloud makes you login (I think this link should just work but if not, let me know and I'll post another way)

[digitaldrummer]

I've almost always preferred some kind of stereo overheads but this past weekend decided to try a mono overhead (for a surf-style track). Here's just the overhead:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/cfqnu8xgso92j ... d.mp3?dl=0

Weird Audio W47 mod2 going into an A-Designs P1, which I have to say captured a full picture of the kit (even in mono). I also had kick, snare, and a "crotch" mic (EV664) to mix with it and it sounded really nice in the mix. I suppose staying in the center gave more room for the panned guitar tracks.

[drumsound]

Yeah, Mike! That sounds great. I traded off a ride cymbal that sounds a lot like the one you're playing on this cut. Does it have a kind of small bell and minimal bowing?

[digitaldrummer]

Yeah, Mike! That sounds great. I traded off a ride cymbal that sounds a lot like the one you're playing on this cut. Does it have a kind of small bell and minimal bowing?

it's a lot like this one -- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b1RuMf3u71U
the bell is certainly not huge, but not tiny. not sure the exact weight on mine. would have to check - but sounds pretty close to this one. I bought it used a few years ago

[drumsound]

I did a session on my vintage Slingerlands where I used Glyn Johns with close mics, and when I put the big rock drums back up, I decided to make a 3 mic GJ recording for shits and giggles. This is Aeyser L36Bs in the Glyn Johns, equidistant from the snare and a Sennheiser e602II about 18 inches in front of the BD. It's pretty quick and dirty, OH tracked panned at 3 and 9, but the BD is still favored on the right (Floor tom side for all you people who pan wrong...). I put a pretty serious LPF on the BD mic in PT to deal with cymbal hash.

The picture on the page shows the mics pretty well. There are other mics set up, but weren't recorded.

https://soundcloud.com/user-253717914/glyn-johns-drums

[DrummerMan]

Thanks for doing this!I just listened to the raw tracks so far. I like the Warm 87s as a nice balance, but I think my favorite is #6, the Weird 47/Nady combo. That sounds the most like "a record" to me.

I've been doing augmented GJ pretty much exclusively with my band for our 4 albums so far, with some variations. We're going to start recording again soon and my plan is beyer m160s in GJ, my soon to be returned from repair re20 on kick, senn 441 on snare, plus a 421 on the rack toms, just so I can bring that up as needed without too much cymbals/room sound.

[roscoenyc]

I see a lot of people posting their version of the Glynn Johns....

with no Front Mic?

What gives?

[drumsound]

I see a lot of people posting their version of the Glynn Johns....

with no Front Mic?

What gives?

Mine has a front mic. The Sennheiser e602II about 18" or so from the front head. I was going for the pure 3 mics deal. I considered another LDC, but looked at the picture on GJ's book of the Benmont Tench sessions and it looked as though he was using a modern BD dynamic, so I went with the mic I had up.

[DrummerMan]

I see a lot of people posting their version of the Glynn Johns....

with no Front Mic?

What gives?

Mine has a front mic. The Sennheiser e602II about 18" or so from the front head. I was going for the pure 3 mics deal. I considered another LDC, but looked at the picture on GJ's book of the Benmont Tench sessions and it looked as though he was using a modern BD dynamic, so I went with the mic I had up.

Can we clarify what we mean by "front" in terms of bass drums? Because I'm getting confused.... I can see the "front of the kit" being on the opposite side from the drummer, because that's in front of the kit, but I have a hard time accept the reso head as the "front" of a drum. Am I the only one?

[digitaldrummer]

I think there are many interpretations of the Glyn Johns mic method and since I've never been in the same room with him I think I can guarantee mine is just an interpretation.

I was using 4 mics - my front mic in this case was in the port in the bass drum resonant (front) head, but I also did it with another kit that had a solid resonant head on the bass drum. in that case, I used the same Miktek PM11, but it was a bit above center of the 24" drum (so probably 13-14" high and maybe 8-10" out. when I have the port I tend to like the sound of the mic in there but really depends on the track I'm recording. And then I used 2 "overheads" -- one over the snare and one equidistant to the side by the floor tom - and a snare mic (which I understand is optional).

since I did the original tracks here in this post I obtained another Weird Audio W47 and I am using them as a pair and I really like the results.

[digitaldrummer]

btw, Tony - what are these -- Aeyser L36Bs ?? never heard of them before.

edit - found it (with correct spelling) http://recordinghacks.com/microphones/Aseyer/L36B