bass drum mic - front or back?

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losthighway
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Re: bass drum mic - front or back?

Post by losthighway » Sun Jan 03, 2021 5:50 pm

Nick Sevilla wrote:
Sun Jan 03, 2021 4:20 pm
losthighway wrote:
Sun Jan 03, 2021 1:43 pm
Also as a side note, can everyone who's using the term "woofy" try and define it for me. I used to have a couple regular clients who used the term frequently when critiquing a mix, and I'm not sure I totally know what they mean. Just that we got it to go away.
Woofy, to me, and how I've heard it used, is too much mid low end, think 150-360 Hz. It is the "exhale" of the kick drum through the port,and
if you have a mic there, it will pick that up. The larger the kick drum, the lower that frequency is.
Thanks for clarifying. I assume this is a somewhat universal way of hearing woofy.

That's the trickiest part of the spectrum in a mix for me (150-360). So easy for it to build up and get muddy. I've been eq'ing away woofy all of this time and didn't know it.

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Re: bass drum mic - front or back?

Post by drumsound » Sun Jan 03, 2021 10:21 pm

losthighway wrote:
Sun Jan 03, 2021 1:43 pm

Also as a side note, can everyone who's using the term "woofy" try and define it for me. I used to have a couple regular clients who used the term frequently when critiquing a mix, and I'm not sure I totally know what they mean. Just that we got it to go away.
For me, woofy is too much low and low mid that gets it the way of what's actually musically relevant. It can occur in BD, but also bass, bass guitar, guitar, organ, keys of all sorts.

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Re: bass drum mic - front or back?

Post by Rodgre » Mon Jan 04, 2021 5:30 am

drumsound wrote:
Sun Jan 03, 2021 10:21 pm
losthighway wrote:
Sun Jan 03, 2021 1:43 pm

Also as a side note, can everyone who's using the term "woofy" try and define it for me. I used to have a couple regular clients who used the term frequently when critiquing a mix, and I'm not sure I totally know what they mean. Just that we got it to go away.
For me, woofy is too much low and low mid that gets it the way of what's actually musically relevant. It can occur in BD, but also bass, bass guitar, guitar, organ, keys of all sorts.
Agree. To me, it's both a blurriness in the low-mids/lows and a lack of clarity in the high-mids/highs. It's a topic for another thread, but it's definitely worth discussing as it's a real tricky area to deal with. There is so much that happens in those frequencies that needs to sit just right and not get cluttered and our ears are sometimes less tuned to that area, compared to what we notice in "detail" in the high-mids/highs. Woof. Murk. Mud. It's all that frequency range in my eyes (ears).

Back to the OP, I have always done the traditional front mic setup (dynamic in the hole or on the front head if there is no hole, and a ribbon or condenser 15" inches in front). I have occasionally mic'd the rear head with a pencil condenser for more "slap" or "click", but pretty much only when I have a smaller, jazz-style kick with no front hole and I want a little more impact/definition to add clarity to the "boom" of the front head. I will sometimes put a condenser on the shell of the kick, facing the shell, positioned where the 2nd tom would be if this was the 80s. This mic tends to be my "glue" mic and picks up a pretty nice blend of everything in the kit, but more specifically, it adds a nice midrange punch and throatiness to the bass drum that kind of goes against the usual scooped-midrange of something like a Beta52/D112, both which instantly give you that smile-curve hard rock kick drum sound. Getting some midrange in there makes for a nice punch to the kick sometimes.

WAY back in the early 90's, my go-to kick drum mic technique was a Radio Shack/Crown PZM mic with a 9v battery instead of a AA (more headroom), sitting inside the kick on a pillow, run into the board with a Paia Parametric EQ inserted on it, to tape. The EQ was preset to a slight sharp boost in the the 60-80Hz range and somewhat of a lift up on the top end. The PZM was pretty great, to be honest. It picked up a nice "shell" tone inside the kick. I should try that again and see if it has aged well.

Roger

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Re: bass drum mic - front or back?

Post by Studiodawg » Mon Jan 04, 2021 10:55 am

The rectangular mic I referred to in a previous post is the Shure 819.

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Re: bass drum mic - front or back?

Post by vvv » Mon Jan 04, 2021 11:47 am

Yeah, I have a Shure of some kind, and an AT. If I recall, one I have is unbalanced, the other has some kinda mini XLR.

I believe those are called boundary mic's because you place them on boundaries, ex., walls, floor, etc. I think they are also called, PZM's, as Rodgre referenced above. See:
https://tapeop.com/interviews/1/pzm/

They were trendy about 15 years ago. I recall something about mounting 'em on a piece of plywood and placing 'em on the floor to capture drums.
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Re: bass drum mic - front or back?

Post by Scodiddly » Mon Jan 04, 2021 12:08 pm

vvv wrote:
Mon Jan 04, 2021 11:47 am
Yeah, I have a Shure of some kind, and an AT. If I recall, one I have is unbalanced, the other has some kinda mini XLR.

I believe those are called boundary mic's because you place them on boundaries, ex., walls, floor, etc. I think they are also called, PZM's, as Rodgre referenced above. See:
https://tapeop.com/interviews/1/pzm/

They were trendy about 15 years ago. I recall something about mounting 'em on a piece of plywood and placing 'em on the floor to capture drums.
Shure SM98 / Beta98 is still a popular mic to throw inside the kick drum in some genres. Cardioid boundary mic.

Oh yeah - as a live guy it's 99.9% of the time front head, mostly so you can keep an eye on it. I still like to use a CAD E100.

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Re: bass drum mic - front or back?

Post by Studiodawg » Mon Jan 04, 2021 12:23 pm

I never liked the CAD e100 on the bass drum. I liked it better on the hi-hat, but don't usually mic the hi-hat cuz I get plenty in the overhead(s). I sold my e100 last year. I'm thinking about putting 2 CAD e300s in cardioid overhead in xy config. I have the CAD Trion 7000 ribbons in spaced-pair as overheads currently. Warm & fast.

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Re: bass drum mic - front or back?

Post by vvv » Mon Jan 04, 2021 5:22 pm

I love those Trions! I actually saw a review compared 'em to Royer. I have one, it's on amps, switch it out with a Shiny Box 23L for room or put the Trion 6" from the amp.

I have a older CAD tube mic, also, and it's sweet on vocals and room - the one with the lolli and the rubberized finish - 6000?

Also forgot to mention, 1 mic in a hurry is Senn 603II just off the front head whether it's there or not, angled if there's a hole. It always works.
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Re: bass drum mic - front or back?

Post by drumsound » Tue Jan 05, 2021 12:46 am

vvv wrote:
Mon Jan 04, 2021 5:22 pm
I love those Trions! I actually saw a review compared 'em to Royer. I have one, it's on amps, switch it out with a Shiny Box 23L for room or put the Trion 6" from the amp.

I have a older CAD tube mic, also, and it's sweet on vocals and room - the one with the lolli and the rubberized finish - 6000?

Also forgot to mention, 1 mic in a hurry is Senn 603II just off the front head whether it's there or not, angled if there's a hole. It always works.
e602II typo?

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Re: bass drum mic - front or back?

Post by vvv » Tue Jan 05, 2021 7:03 am

:oops:

Yes! E602II

Gonna fire my transcriptionist ...
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Re: bass drum mic - front or back?

Post by digitaldrummer » Tue Jan 05, 2021 7:35 am

and this is how I would describe Zomby Woofiness

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ksnwEsPKO5s
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Re: bass drum mic - front or back?

Post by drumsound » Wed Jan 06, 2021 8:11 am

digitaldrummer wrote:
Tue Jan 05, 2021 7:35 am
and this is how I would describe Zomby Woofiness

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ksnwEsPKO5s
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Re: bass drum mic - front or back?

Post by Brett Siler » Fri Jan 08, 2021 7:58 pm

If I had to pick just one side, I would pick the resonant side. Especially if the resonant side has a port you can easily get excellent kick drum sounds with the right mic and placement. Micing just the beater side sounds kinda crazy from my experience.

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Re: bass drum mic - front or back?

Post by Snarl 12/8 » Sat Jan 09, 2021 2:22 pm

One of my favorite things is to mic the beater side and the resonant side (if no hole) and hard pan them. It's like having your head inside the kick drum. In a good way.
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Re: bass drum mic - front or back?

Post by Studiodawg » Sun Jan 10, 2021 7:30 am

This sounds like something I'd like to try!
Snarl 12/8 wrote:
Sat Jan 09, 2021 2:22 pm
One of my favorite things is to mic the beater side and the resonant side (if no hole) and hard pan them. It's like having your head inside the kick drum. In a good way.

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