hughes srs ak100/stereo enhancers

Recording Techniques, People Skills, Gear, Recording Spaces, Computers, and DIY

Moderators: drumsound, tomb

Post Reply
User avatar
Rodgre
carpal tunnel
Posts: 1682
Joined: Fri May 30, 2003 3:19 am
Location: Central MA
Contact:

hughes srs ak100/stereo enhancers

Post by Rodgre » Thu Jan 14, 2021 7:03 am

Hello all.

From time to time, I look around for info on the Bedini B.A.S.E. and Hughes SRS AK-100 stereo enhancers and I find little about them. I was wondering if anyone really knew the technical story about them and the circuit topology. I'm familiar with the Haas effect with short delays and I'm familiar with the adding R to L and subtracting L from R stereo spreaders of things like the Behringer Edison and Waves Imager plugin. The B.A.S.E. and Hughes seem to do something different and from what I've gathered, pretty guarded and secret. Therefore it must be something super simple, right? Ha! I'm hoping it's a ten-component circuit just covered in half a pound of epoxy goop.

So does anyone really know what they are technically doing? Has anyone made a plugin that does a similar thing? I do use Waves S1 and Stereo Maker to manipulate things a little, but when it comes to making things sound like they're beyond the speakers, I've not found something that does what I want.

ASIDE: what got me interested in becoming an engineer as well as obsessed with guitar effects as a kid was one particular moment on a Rush album. At exactly 9:31 in this video https://youtu.be/zfloBf5yLi8 of "Cygnus X-1 Book 2 Hemispheres" by Rush, there is a lead guitar part with chorus and flanging on it that seems to circle your head in headphones. It completely blew my mind as a 10 year old. It's a dragon I've been chasing ever since. I realize that this effect is more to do with short delays and the combined chorus and flanging effects, but the concept of sound swirling around your head in stereo, not just a panning mono source, has been an obsession ever since.

Roger

User avatar
Nick Sevilla
on a wing and a prayer
Posts: 5097
Joined: Mon Mar 03, 2008 1:34 pm
Location: Lake Arrowhead California USA
Contact:

Re: hughes srs ak100/stereo enhancers

Post by Nick Sevilla » Thu Jan 14, 2021 8:06 am

That guitar part starts at 9:29, and it sounds like just someone panning the melody guitar about.

I really cannot hear weirdness of the chorus too much, I do hear the flanging, which is what makes the guitar sounds like it is going a little behind your head. It is a psychoacoustic effect. Cool effect.
Howling at the neighbors. Hoping they have more mic cables.

User avatar
Rodgre
carpal tunnel
Posts: 1682
Joined: Fri May 30, 2003 3:19 am
Location: Central MA
Contact:

Re: hughes srs ak100/stereo enhancers

Post by Rodgre » Thu Jan 14, 2021 8:13 am

Nick Sevilla wrote:
Thu Jan 14, 2021 8:06 am
That guitar part starts at 9:29, and it sounds like just someone panning the melody guitar about.

I really cannot hear weirdness of the chorus too much, I do hear the flanging, which is what makes the guitar sounds like it is going a little behind your head. It is a psychoacoustic effect. Cool effect.
If you listen in headphones, it's definitely a dramatic effect. To my ears, its not a mono source with effects sent from an aux, with the mono source panned from side to side. To my ears, and this could be due to the psychoacoustic effect of the flanging, it sounds like it starts out in stereo, with a chorus effect to make it that way, so it's left and right. Then as the riff plays, it moves FURTHER left and right, not side to side, but just wider. It's possible that there is a delay on one side which just gets panned harder as the riff plays, to make it seem wider. The vocal part immediately after this section in the song has a tight slap delay on it which is mono at first and at the end of the section pans the dry to one side and the wet to the other (to dramatically illustrate the two "hemispheres" that the lyric is describing). I think I need to get a hold of Terry Brown and ask him.

Roger

User avatar
Nick Sevilla
on a wing and a prayer
Posts: 5097
Joined: Mon Mar 03, 2008 1:34 pm
Location: Lake Arrowhead California USA
Contact:

Re: hughes srs ak100/stereo enhancers

Post by Nick Sevilla » Thu Jan 14, 2021 9:28 am

Rodgre wrote:
Thu Jan 14, 2021 8:13 am
If you listen in headphones, it's definitely a dramatic effect. To my ears, its not a mono source with effects sent from an aux, with the mono source panned from side to side. To my ears, and this could be due to the psychoacoustic effect of the flanging, it sounds like it starts out in stereo, with a chorus effect to make it that way, so it's left and right. Then as the riff plays, it moves FURTHER left and right, not side to side, but just wider. It's possible that there is a delay on one side which just gets panned harder as the riff plays, to make it seem wider. The vocal part immediately after this section in the song has a tight slap delay on it which is mono at first and at the end of the section pans the dry to one side and the wet to the other (to dramatically illustrate the two "hemispheres" that the lyric is describing). I think I need to get a hold of Terry Brown and ask him.

Roger
I am listening on headphones. 8)

The effect you describe could be that they set up a mono send to a Stereo chorus, which although softer, still fills the left right, as they panned the guitar around. If the send did not follow the panning, as many older consoles did not have this feature, it would explain why, although you hear the guitar being panned, you still hear the Stereo chorus effect almost the same on both channels. It is definitely a cool idea. Must try soon. They also could have had a delay on that send with the chorus.

Time to experiment in the studio, try to get close to what they did. Cheers!

And yes, get in touch with Terry, I hope he remembers what they did here.
Howling at the neighbors. Hoping they have more mic cables.

Colorblind
gettin' sounds
Posts: 113
Joined: Thu Nov 30, 2006 6:23 pm

Re: hughes srs ak100/stereo enhancers

Post by Colorblind » Thu Jan 14, 2021 6:32 pm

Rodgre wrote:
Thu Jan 14, 2021 7:03 am
Hello all.

From time to time, I look around for info on the Bedini B.A.S.E. and Hughes SRS AK-100 stereo enhancers and I find little about them. I was wondering if anyone really knew the technical story about them and the circuit topology. I'm familiar with the Haas effect with short delays and I'm familiar with the adding R to L and subtracting L from R stereo spreaders of things like the Behringer Edison and Waves Imager plugin. The B.A.S.E. and Hughes seem to do something different and from what I've gathered, pretty guarded and secret. Therefore it must be something super simple, right? Ha! I'm hoping it's a ten-component circuit just covered in half a pound of epoxy goop.

So does anyone really know what they are technically doing? Has anyone made a plugin that does a similar thing? I do use Waves S1 and Stereo Maker to manipulate things a little, but when it comes to making things sound like they're beyond the speakers, I've not found something that does what I want.

ASIDE: what got me interested in becoming an engineer as well as obsessed with guitar effects as a kid was one particular moment on a Rush album. At exactly 9:31 in this video https://youtu.be/zfloBf5yLi8 of "Cygnus X-1 Book 2 Hemispheres" by Rush, there is a lead guitar part with chorus and flanging on it that seems to circle your head in headphones. It completely blew my mind as a 10 year old. It's a dragon I've been chasing ever since. I realize that this effect is more to do with short delays and the combined chorus and flanging effects, but the concept of sound swirling around your head in stereo, not just a panning mono source, has been an obsession ever since.

Roger
Is it possible they used a binaural mic technique for that guitar part? There are YouTube videos showing how to make a binaural mic on the cheap. That may not be what's happening here, but when I think of sound moving around behind the listener's head, I think of binaural recording.

The Scum
moves faders with mind
Posts: 2513
Joined: Thu Jul 03, 2003 11:26 pm
Location: Denver, CO
Contact:

Re: hughes srs ak100/stereo enhancers

Post by The Scum » Thu Jan 14, 2021 7:13 pm

Is this the original SRS patent: https://patents.google.com/patent/US5251260A/en?

I know Kurzweil licensed SRS for KDFX/KSP8 in ~1997, so it had to exist then. That one also added reverb, so block 68 in the diagrams makes sense. Maybe it's just the "front SRS" portion of that? Checking quickly, there's no notice of patent licensing in the K2600 manual.

This looks similar: https://patents.google.com/patent/US8472631B2, click on the author, and there are a bunch of similar patents, all assigned to Hughes/SRS.

All of that is 15-20 years past Hemishpheres, though.
"What fer?"
"Cat fur, to make kitten britches."

The Scum
moves faders with mind
Posts: 2513
Joined: Thu Jul 03, 2003 11:26 pm
Location: Denver, CO
Contact:

Re: hughes srs ak100/stereo enhancers

Post by The Scum » Thu Jan 14, 2021 7:20 pm

"What fer?"
"Cat fur, to make kitten britches."

Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 58 guests