M/S on the mix - am I doing it right?

[andrewlloydwebern]

Hi everyone,

I'm looking for info on M/S mixing. I've been experimenting and I like the results, but I want to be sure I'm doing it right (or best I can).

I've been experimenting with the Waves Center plug-in, setting up an Effects Rack in Ableton - one "chain" is just the center, the other "chain" just the sides. I've been experimenting with putting flanger or a little extra reverb on the side channel and opening it up and really loving it.

What's a good resource that's not some yahoo on YouTube? What are some things I should watch out for and avoid (such as these?)

[Nick Sevilla]

Hi everyone,

I'm looking for info on M/S mixing. I've been experimenting and I like the results, but I want to be sure I'm doing it right (or best I can).

I've been experimenting with the Waves Center plug-in, setting up an Effects Rack in Ableton - one "chain" is just the center, the other "chain" just the sides. I've been experimenting with putting flanger or a little extra reverb on the side channel and opening it up and really loving it.

What's a good resource that's not some yahoo on YouTube? What are some things I should watch out for and avoid (such as these?)

Well , first of all, Mid/Side is a microphone technique, not a mixing technique. It is two microphones, one in figure 8 pattern, pointed with the null facing the sound source, and a second mic in cardioid facing the same sound source. This is to facilitate the imaging of a Stereo sound field upon playback using only two speakers (Stereo), while retaining a Mono source if need be. Using Mid/Side processing, well, the best way to do that would be with an original two mic M/S recording. But, well, with DAWs and the like these days, anything can be done. The issue is: Should it be done? If it sounds good, then YES.

As to mixing using these two mic sources, well, do what you think sounds good to you. As to anyone who sells M/S processing plug ins chiming in, well they are MARKETING to you, hoping you buy their product. So, they will say whatever they think you want to read. I have found that using M/S on anything which is not an M/S source recording, simply gives meh, bland, strange results. Your mileage will vary.

Just experiment. Make it sound good TO YOU.

https://www.shure.com/en-US/performance ... reo-miking

[vvv]

For me, in the context of the rock music I usually work on, such tricks and effects are best used in a subtle and/or specific manner*.

I would never M/S an entire mix - leave that to a guy whom knows what he's doing in the mastering stages.

I have M/S'd a mono drum track (M/S onna drum two-mix kinda makes a mess), but find it's better if you can M/S just elements, say the snare, or the snare and kick, and then use spot-mics and OH's for the rest of the kit.

You likely saw this thread, where I mention I'm doing (sometimes just some of) the guitars.

M/S on a lead vocal can be cool, if - unlike me - you can really sing.


* Other than the reverb on My Morning Jacket, or whatever Kevin Shields does to MBV guitars.

[digitaldrummer]

some plugins have m/s options, which is different than, as Nick points out, recording mid/side. I have the Dangerous Music (Brainworx) Bax EQ and I often use it on my master bus in "mid/side" mode. That allows me to EQ the mid and sides separately. Processing in m/s mode is also not really mixing m/s (is that really even a thing?).

[Magnetic Services]

Well , first of all, Mid/Side is a microphone technique, not a mixing technique.

It's both! Check out the article from the original post, Ozone includes some really handy tools for M/S processing. I think of it more as a mastering technique than a mixing technique, but it can be either. These tools are great when you want to EQ, compress or high-pass the side channels without affecting the center (or vice versa).

[Nick Sevilla]

Well , first of all, Mid/Side is a microphone technique, not a mixing technique.

It's both! Check out the article from the original post, Ozone includes some really handy tools for M/S processing. I think of it more as a mastering technique than a mixing technique, but it can be either. These tools are great when you want to EQ, compress or high-pass the side channels without affecting the center (or vice versa).

In the olden days... there was the Fairchild 670 Limiter which did M/S processing. I have used that on occasion on weird sounding drumkits, It did some nice weirdo fattening of the Left/Right of the drums. Had to also use a Little Labs IBP to mess with it some more. Other than that...

I am curious as to why, in mastering, one would have to do this sort of stuff. I could see if you wanted to brighten the sides versus the main lead vocal in the center.

[MoreSpaceEcho]

I am curious as to why, in mastering, one would have to do this sort of stuff. I could see if you wanted to brighten the sides versus the main lead vocal in the center.

Lots of reasons:

The drums are kinda boxy but the guitars sound good. With m/s eq I can take some mids out of the M but leave the S alone.
And the opposite: I can add some whatever on the sides and beef up the guitars relative to the drums/vocals.
Sometimes a little mid boost, 700-1k, on just the m can bring out a vocal nicely.
Sometimes instead of boosting say 2k in stereo, I'll boost 2k on the m and 1.6k on the s. This can give a nice sense of separation/width.

Likewise de-essing, if I need to de-ess the vocal but I don't want to affect the cymbals/percussion I could use m/s instead of stereo. Don't do this often cause it's not usually a problem, normally it's more likely the de-esser will be affecting the snare.

I almost never use m/s compression, maybe once every 500 songs there's a reason. And I rarely just make things wider, people assume ME's widen by default but I probably narrow things as often as I widen them.

[vvv]

[jimjazzdad]

A very interesting article on 'stereo shuffling' techniques that can be used with MS in mixing/mastering by one of the true audio geniuses, Michael Gerzon: http://www.audiosignal.co.uk/Resources/ ... ng_USL.pdf
(Everything in the Gerzon archives is worth a read, although a few of the articles are a bit dated now (but the physics never changes)