The Truth Hurts - REW and my room...

[MoreSpaceEcho]

I don't know 100% for sure, but I'm 99.9% positive that 2 drum kits and a big ass kick drum in the room will definitely contribute to the ringing, I never leave drums in my room for that reason. If I need to record drums it basically has to happen on a week when I have no mastering, cause the drums just take over the studio. Anyway I know exactly how irritating it'd be to drag all the drums out of the room and test it without them, and really, if you always have at least one kit set up there's not really a reason to test without, but it'd be interesting to see how much difference it actually makes.

Your dimensions are close to mine (my room's 20x30), and if I had your room I'd have the desk against the short wall BUT I don't think that just moving your desk is going to make any real difference in the ringing. It'll be a different freq response that'll be better or worse but the ringing is going to be essentially the same because it's treatment that solves that problem.

Since you're using the room to record drums as well as mix I think you're just going to have to compromise, because a nice lively, exciting drum room and a super tight, accurate control room are basically opposite things.

[losthighway]

I don't know 100% for sure, but I'm 99.9% positive that 2 drum kits and a big ass kick drum in the room will definitely contribute to the ringing, I never leave drums in my room for that reason.

A few blankets can be a quick fix for this. It's amazing how much a rowdy drum or cymbal settles down when it's got even a little bit of a blanket resting against the head. They're like parrots, just put a blanket over the cage and they'll go to sleep.

[Magnetic Services]

Agreed with everyone else; this is not that bad. Any frequency response graph you see for a mic or speakers is heavily smoothed out, and everything looks "worse" when you see the raw data. I say try to take care of the most glaring problems the best you can, then just accept how your room is and learn how it sounds.

[MoreSpaceEcho]

A few blankets can be a quick fix for this.

Right, good point. The toms might be more of a problem than the kicks, as far as being sustainiacs.

[digitaldrummer]

Since you're using the room to record drums as well as mix I think you're just going to have to compromise, because a nice lively, exciting drum room and a super tight, accurate control room are basically opposite things.

yeah, that's exactly what I was thinking. Every time I've had a band record in the room it sounds great. And I do drum tracks all the time and I like the way they sound too, so... I do have to find that balance. I'm going to move some drums around, or put a few in cases, or as suggested put some blankets on them and shoot it again, because i do always have at least one kit setup (so I may try it with and without blankets on that one). over the last (pandemic) year I've got stuff scattered all over since I didn't have to clean up for recording sessions or band rehearsals, etc. Just me in there... so I need to clean it up anyway.

Mike

[digitaldrummer]

got some new measurements today. this is after I picked up all of the "extra" drums that were laying around and put them into cases - but they are still stacked around the room (no getting around that...). And btw, I have a collection of about 20 snares sitting on open shelves (snares off) so that definitely adds to the flavor of the room.

so here's a new SPL graph (1/24 smoothing) from today:

4-5-21 SPL fx80 24sm.jpg (83.09 KiB) Viewed 3042 times

.
here's the left and right waterfall diagrams (with no additional covering/dampening on drums setup in the room):

4-5-21 Lfx80 no cover wf.jpg (177.59 KiB) Viewed 3042 times

.

4-5-21 Rfx80 no cover wf.jpg (177.95 KiB) Viewed 3042 times

.
btw, all of the WF diagrams are 1/48 smoothing

[digitaldrummer]

here's 2 more shots where I covered up all the open drums and cymbals with blankets, and put a pillow in front of each kick head. I don't see a hug difference (if any). BUT, compared to the previous diagrams, I think picking up some of the other open drums may have helped a bit. I also covered up the computer a bit since it is located about 2-3 feet from the mic. so that is probably also contributing to any noise floor for sure.
.

4-5-21 Lfx80 all cover wf.jpg (176.43 KiB) Viewed 3042 times

.

4-5-21 Rfx80 all cover wf.jpg (177.49 KiB) Viewed 3042 times

I have the mdat data file if anyone wants it too

[The Scum]

It looks like stuff in this region gets cleaner.

4-5-21 Rfx80 all cover wf.jpg (164.12 KiB) Viewed 3019 times

Are some of those tails drums ringing along?

One thing you've never really stated: what's your goal? Do you want a great live music room, or a super accurate control room? Something in between?

As MSE said, they're kinda opposites, but that doesn't mean you can get some of both. You could build dual-personality treatment (hard on one side, soft on the other), and reconfigure the room for tracking or mixing.

[digitaldrummer]

I'm looking for balance. I built this as a single room, and I use it for ~ 60% recording drums, 30% band rehearsals or band recordings, and 10% mixing/mastering of projects (although I will say that 60% for drum recording also includes mixing and requires me to get a decent reference mix because some clients use the stereo drums only mix "as is" in their mixes). And the room does sounds really good. almost everyone who has played in it has mentioned it.

I think next on my todo list is to pull the desk back out and retest with the new absorbers (because my previous measurements looked to me like most tails stopped much quicker). Then maybe I can experiment with absorber placement - I have a couch behind me, but might try a bit of absorption back there too depending on how it looks after I pull the desk out again. just to see if I can even anything out.

[digitaldrummer]

oh, btw, does the number of sweeps play into accuracy of the measurements? I'm using 2 sweeps right now, but I was using 4 originally. didn't look like it was making much difference to me but there must be some averaging done?

also, I'm using the measurement through a "clean" preamp ( Danfield Audio MX20vpr) and then into my Apollo 16. When I calibrated the channel I looped the Apollo16, but w/o the preamp. I know, but it only has a mic input so I would have had to add a DI or maybe a pad... every option was going to be imperfect anyway... but in my experience this preamp is very transparent so seemed like the best option to make an assumption around.

[MoreSpaceEcho]

I think just doing 2 sweeps is fine.

These latest measurements actually look pretty good, your freq response is more or less within +/-5 and overall you're within +/-10. The decay doesn't look too bad at all considering how many drums are in there resonating. I think you have more snares in there than my local drum shop!

[digitaldrummer]

um, yeah. it's a sickness. but I know guitar players understand this too.

here's a shot of those... behind more drums in cases. it's a bit fish-eyed, but shows the superchunk, vaulted ceiling, etc. Maybe if I spread these snares out I can make them into a fancy diffusor of some kind. Mix desk is just to the left. guitar amps to the left of that. so it's not symmetrical by any means.

corner.jpg (192.25 KiB) Viewed 2974 times

[vvv]

I so relate!

[digitaldrummer]

I took about 20 more measurements so far today. It's amazing the things around a room that can "sing". for example, i had 4 or 5 used bass drum heads, in boxes, leaned up against something else (used to have these behind the mix area until I moved it back and no longer had room for them). But yeah, moving these around I could see it in some very low end "noise". Laid them flat on the floor and it's mostly gone now. Maybe I'll move these to the garage...

I'm also a little suspect of my main door. I know it's a weak spot to begin with. It goes to the outside, but its wood (with engraved panels, which is not the best thing here but it looks pretty). I've considered looking for a steel, solid core door. Anyway, I stacked some absorption in front of the door and it seems like it stopped a little resonance too.

I am also now starting to suspect that my desk setup is probably suspect too (in the low end). here's an older picture, but you can get the idea. The bricks are very solid under the monitors, however that's all sitting on a steel frame rack, which is on plastic casters. so I think I hear some vibrations happening in the sub-lows while the sweep is happening. I will look into decoupling the desk - which really means I'd have to get a different rack and smaller desk, then build new speaker stands (or get a lot more patio bricks which is OK too - it would be very solid).
.

mixdesk.jpg (188.85 KiB) Viewed 2960 times

[MoreSpaceEcho]

That's an enviable collection of snares!