Recording Trends/Techniques that drive you nuts

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Re: Recording Trends/Techniques that drive you nuts

Post by digitaldrummer » Tue Apr 06, 2021 11:02 am

ouch. that truly hurts (my ears).
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Re: Recording Trends/Techniques that drive you nuts

Post by losthighway » Tue Apr 06, 2021 11:32 am

MoreSpaceEcho wrote:
Tue Apr 06, 2021 9:19 am
losthighway wrote:
Mon Apr 05, 2021 8:55 am
If you don't know what I'm talking about I can probably find examples.
I know exactly what you're talking about but I'd like examples anyway!

I don't like drum samples any more than anyone else, but at least now people have learned to mix them correctly. I remember back around 2006, hearing lots of mixes where the drum samples were a good 6db too loud, just pounding away, 40 feet in front of the rest of the mix.

At the other end of the spectrum, for awhile now I've been wondering what's up with the crazy midrange drum sounds on some indie rock records, like this one:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xeg3WOY7mW0

(btw I know that as the closing music on "Difficult People", highly recommend that show, so funny, shame it got cancelled after 3 seasons). I don't actually mind that sort of thing, as I've always liked more mids on my drums than the norm, but having grown up in the scooped out 80s it's just funny to me.
Yeah, that's totally the sound all of the garagey, surfy pop punk bands are going for. Like a radioshack mic plugged into a Tascam turned up too hot. I kind of dig that whole scene, but it's not my production aesthetic of choice. I have been willing to make people's stuff sound 'worse' when they think that sound is better and it's kind of fun.

Here's an example of a drum sound that I can't imagine existing in any particular space: https://snappylittlenumbers.bandcamp.co ... reat-lakes

These guys are friends of mine, and I think there record is actually quite an achievement. They did it at another studio in town, with an engineer I know and respect, but it's interesting how different our styles are because we get some of the same clients.

Also, there's something of a 'sour grapes' thing I have to monitor for in this, because while I don't really dig this sound, I also don't know if I could mimic it using the technology and techniques I commonly use.

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Re: Recording Trends/Techniques that drive you nuts

Post by vvv » Tue Apr 06, 2021 12:12 pm

Listening to that brings to mind Off Broadway crossed with The Killers.
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Re: Recording Trends/Techniques that drive you nuts

Post by DrummerMan » Tue Apr 06, 2021 2:48 pm

I love that show so much. So sad it's not on anymore... It's funny I never paid attention to the mix on that track because I just love how it functions in the end credits. I think it might not feel as aggro and in your face if it had what I would consider the proper amount of low end.
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Re: Recording Trends/Techniques that drive you nuts

Post by DrummerMan » Tue Apr 06, 2021 3:06 pm

kslight wrote:
Mon Apr 05, 2021 8:33 am
I hate it when someone has tried to pan or otherwise duplicate effect a single mono guitar part across the stereo field, sounds like my ears are in a vacuum. I have someone who will do this with his guitar parts, like 3 or 4 duplicate tracks. Just play it again, fool (it’s not complicated parts either..)
Do you mean like hard pan with a slight delay kind of thing? Personally I do that all the time. The psychoacoustic effect is something that feels different than when it's an actual double tracked part.

I agree with what many people are saying in the specifics. I think too much high end info on any drum track is unnecessary, and I'm often fighting to thin out my snare sound a bit, especially around 200Hz. That shut drives me nuts. But of course those particular trends have been around for decades upon decades now so they might just be "standard practice" for many an engineer.

It's funny with all the talk recently of drum replacing and the like as it's just something I've never even thought about doing so to hear the vast stories and issues is really interesting. I would always rather have my drums feel maybe not perfect but at least alive. Luckily, I work for myself for the most part so don't have the kinds of clients that bring me a nickelback record as a reference.

Of course, the "trends" I despise are usually actually just "the trends that came after I was born so they are to me in fact just stupid trends and not ubiquitous blueprints for how 'good records' sound, like the stuff from the 50s, 60s and 70s I grew up with".

I think we all have a tendency for some selective criticisms and biases when it comes to musical aesthetics. Personally I've tried to accept that reality and not feel to badly about, it lets me embrace elements of 60s trends that people who were around in the 60s would roll their eyes at, without feeling like I have to copy every nuance of said element.
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Re: Recording Trends/Techniques that drive you nuts

Post by Nick Sevilla » Tue Apr 06, 2021 5:23 pm

When a project comes in, and EVERYTHING is recorded in Stereo.

Jeebus.
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Re: Recording Trends/Techniques that drive you nuts

Post by joninc » Tue Apr 06, 2021 5:51 pm

lately I've been getting sent stuff to mix and often times it's all been exported stereo but is actually mono...

which is much easier to sort out then stereo stuff that's been bounced to mono.
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Re: Recording Trends/Techniques that drive you nuts

Post by kslight » Tue Apr 06, 2021 6:42 pm

DrummerMan wrote:
Tue Apr 06, 2021 3:06 pm
kslight wrote:
Mon Apr 05, 2021 8:33 am
I hate it when someone has tried to pan or otherwise duplicate effect a single mono guitar part across the stereo field, sounds like my ears are in a vacuum. I have someone who will do this with his guitar parts, like 3 or 4 duplicate tracks. Just play it again, fool (it’s not complicated parts either..)
Do you mean like hard pan with a slight delay kind of thing? Personally I do that all the time. The psychoacoustic effect is something that feels different than when it's an actual double tracked part.

I agree with what many people are saying in the specifics. I think too much high end info on any drum track is unnecessary, and I'm often fighting to thin out my snare sound a bit, especially around 200Hz. That shut drives me nuts. But of course those particular trends have been around for decades upon decades now so they might just be "standard practice" for many an engineer.

It's funny with all the talk recently of drum replacing and the like as it's just something I've never even thought about doing so to hear the vast stories and issues is really interesting. I would always rather have my drums feel maybe not perfect but at least alive. Luckily, I work for myself for the most part so don't have the kinds of clients that bring me a nickelback record as a reference.

Of course, the "trends" I despise are usually actually just "the trends that came after I was born so they are to me in fact just stupid trends and not ubiquitous blueprints for how 'good records' sound, like the stuff from the 50s, 60s and 70s I grew up with".

I think we all have a tendency for some selective criticisms and biases when it comes to musical aesthetics. Personally I've tried to accept that reality and not feel to badly about, it lets me embrace elements of 60s trends that people who were around in the 60s would roll their eyes at, without feeling like I have to copy every nuance of said element.

Yep, a single guitar take duplicated, delayed or not delayed at all and hard panned, or two close mics and hard panned...etc...i just can’t.


And i mean I totally get why someone would want to sample replace drums (perfect tight / punchy hits, easy to make space for the rest of the band)...but I am not at all into that. I’ve had to do it, but I see no point in recording real drums at all if this is what we are going to do.

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Re: Recording Trends/Techniques that drive you nuts

Post by Scodiddly » Tue Apr 06, 2021 6:56 pm

Deliberate distortion on the vocals. Not like something that's a little fuzzy, but heavy distortion. OK, I don't mind that in music that's heavy and full of other things that are distorted, but not in pop music.

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Re: Recording Trends/Techniques that drive you nuts

Post by MoreSpaceEcho » Tue Apr 06, 2021 7:33 pm

losthighway wrote:
Tue Apr 06, 2021 11:32 am
Here's an example of a drum sound that I can't imagine existing in any particular space: https://snappylittlenumbers.bandcamp.co ... reat-lakes
Yeah, those drums just sound like samples to me. It doesn't sound bad but it doesn't draw me in either.

It's kinda similar to how I feel about a lot of 90s big rock drum sounds, where everything is like a hyper-real version of itself and you can hear every hit perfectly clearly and it's all very impressive but I dunno maybe I just prefer things somewhat less impressive.

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Re: Recording Trends/Techniques that drive you nuts

Post by drumsound » Tue Apr 06, 2021 10:14 pm

MoreSpaceEcho wrote:
Tue Apr 06, 2021 9:19 am
losthighway wrote:
Mon Apr 05, 2021 8:55 am
If you don't know what I'm talking about I can probably find examples.
I know exactly what you're talking about but I'd like examples anyway!

I don't like drum samples any more than anyone else, but at least now people have learned to mix them correctly. I remember back around 2006, hearing lots of mixes where the drum samples were a good 6db too loud, just pounding away, 40 feet in front of the rest of the mix.

At the other end of the spectrum, for awhile now I've been wondering what's up with the crazy midrange drum sounds on some indie rock records, like this one:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xeg3WOY7mW0

(btw I know that as the closing music on "Difficult People", highly recommend that show, so funny, shame it got cancelled after 3 seasons). I don't actually mind that sort of thing, as I've always liked more mids on my drums than the norm, but having grown up in the scooped out 80s it's just funny to me.
That song just makes me think of NYC punk rock from '76 or so tracked and mixed in one nice.

Also, that show was a riot!
digitaldrummer wrote:
Tue Apr 06, 2021 11:02 am
ouch. that truly hurts (my ears).
Yup
vvv wrote:
Tue Apr 06, 2021 12:12 pm
Listening to that brings to mind Off Broadway crossed with The Killers.
The first band I ever played in did an Off Broadway song at the HS talent show!

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Re: Recording Trends/Techniques that drive you nuts

Post by vvv » Tue Apr 06, 2021 10:18 pm

drumsound wrote:
Tue Apr 06, 2021 10:14 pm
The first band I ever played in did an Off Broadway song at the HS talent show!
I did undergrad at U. of IL, and they inspired as many fanatics as the Trick.
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Re: Recording Trends/Techniques that drive you nuts

Post by Rodgre » Wed Apr 07, 2021 3:30 am

MoreSpaceEcho wrote:
Tue Apr 06, 2021 7:33 pm
It's kinda similar to how I feel about a lot of 90s big rock drum sounds, where everything is like a hyper-real version of itself and you can hear every hit perfectly clearly and it's all very impressive but I dunno maybe I just prefer things somewhat less impressive.
I like to think of that as "cocaine for every drum"! It's not realistic at all, and maybe that's the point?

One of my favorite drum tracks is a favorite because of the arrangement of it. It's totally simple but just spot on. It's "Bye Bye Love" by the Cars. There's no over-playing or anything hard about it, but it's just so perfect for that song, and the fills in the choruses, which are all unique and played with confidence, become hooks to me. There's the vocal hook: "bye, bye love" then the fill. repeat. repeat. repeat. Roy Thomas Baker for the win.

The fact that our (collective) ears have gotten used to the sound of in-your-face triggered drum samples lately, especially in pop and hard rock music, we have gotten into the cycle/trend of unrealistic sounding drums once again. It's a case where some of us old fogies miss the sound of dynamics and where every snare hit was a little different from hit to hit (though, EZ Drummer does a good job with this), a lot of newer folks don't seem to think that matters, and the majority of young listeners definitely don't think it matters, or even notice it or the lack of it. Some of use grew up where Mutt Lange's Def Leppard "Hysteria" was the benchmark of production and don't take into account that there are no real drums, only programmed drum machine on that album ("but, wait! What about the one-armed drummer who miraculously learned how to play again for that album?" No. Just no. You can't tell me those drums aren't programmed. Also, not one guitar amp used on that record. All direct Rockman guitar tones). Myself, I love when a drum track sounds like a kit in a room, small or large. There are grace notes. There are soft hits. There are loud hits. There is space around the kit. I react to that.

Maybe it's irrelevant in the world of modern pop music, but just below the surface of top-40 radio, there is a lot of music still being made with a sense of "feel" that needs to have these characteristics. You CAN get these sounds augmenting with samples for a bit of punch or consistency, but it really starts with well-recorded drums that you don't have to throw out in favor of samples.

Now get off my lawn!

Roger

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Re: Recording Trends/Techniques that drive you nuts

Post by digitaldrummer » Wed Apr 07, 2021 6:13 am

Rodgre wrote:
Wed Apr 07, 2021 3:30 am
Def Leppard "Hysteria" was the benchmark of production and don't take into account that there are no real drums, only programmed drum machine on that album
I think Pyromania was the same way (Fairlight I think?) and ZZ Top's Eliminator. C'mon, they were a fucking blues band. Then all drum machine? Yuck. yet, probably their biggest album ever. :cry:
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Re: Recording Trends/Techniques that drive you nuts

Post by drumsound » Wed Apr 07, 2021 6:42 am

vvv wrote:
Tue Apr 06, 2021 10:18 pm
drumsound wrote:
Tue Apr 06, 2021 10:14 pm
The first band I ever played in did an Off Broadway song at the HS talent show!
I did undergrad at U. of IL, and they inspired as many fanatics as the Trick.
They were a really great band and it's a shame they didn't do better on the national scene.
Rodgre wrote:
Wed Apr 07, 2021 3:30 am
MoreSpaceEcho wrote:
Tue Apr 06, 2021 7:33 pm
It's kinda similar to how I feel about a lot of 90s big rock drum sounds, where everything is like a hyper-real version of itself and you can hear every hit perfectly clearly and it's all very impressive but I dunno maybe I just prefer things somewhat less impressive.
I like to think of that as "cocaine for every drum"! It's not realistic at all, and maybe that's the point?

One of my favorite drum tracks is a favorite because of the arrangement of it. It's totally simple but just spot on. It's "Bye Bye Love" by the Cars. There's no over-playing or anything hard about it, but it's just so perfect for that song, and the fills in the choruses, which are all unique and played with confidence, become hooks to me. There's the vocal hook: "bye, bye love" then the fill. repeat. repeat. repeat. Roy Thomas Baker for the win.

The fact that our (collective) ears have gotten used to the sound of in-your-face triggered drum samples lately, especially in pop and hard rock music, we have gotten into the cycle/trend of unrealistic sounding drums once again. It's a case where some of us old fogies miss the sound of dynamics and where every snare hit was a little different from hit to hit (though, EZ Drummer does a good job with this), a lot of newer folks don't seem to think that matters, and the majority of young listeners definitely don't think it matters, or even notice it or the lack of it. Some of use grew up where Mutt Lange's Def Leppard "Hysteria" was the benchmark of production and don't take into account that there are no real drums, only programmed drum machine on that album ("but, wait! What about the one-armed drummer who miraculously learned how to play again for that album?" No. Just no. You can't tell me those drums aren't programmed. Also, not one guitar amp used on that record. All direct Rockman guitar tones). Myself, I love when a drum track sounds like a kit in a room, small or large. There are grace notes. There are soft hits. There are loud hits. There is space around the kit. I react to that.

Maybe it's irrelevant in the world of modern pop music, but just below the surface of top-40 radio, there is a lot of music still being made with a sense of "feel" that needs to have these characteristics. You CAN get these sounds augmenting with samples for a bit of punch or consistency, but it really starts with well-recorded drums that you don't have to throw out in favor of samples.

Now get off my lawn!

Roger
Great post Roger!
digitaldrummer wrote:
Wed Apr 07, 2021 6:13 am
Rodgre wrote:
Wed Apr 07, 2021 3:30 am
Def Leppard "Hysteria" was the benchmark of production and don't take into account that there are no real drums, only programmed drum machine on that album
I think Pyromania was the same way (Fairlight I think?) and ZZ Top's Eliminator. C'mon, they were a fucking blues band. Then all drum machine? Yuck. yet, probably their biggest album ever. :cry:
I hate those records. And I think ZZ Top is one of the best American bands ever. Fuck Def Leppard though, they're useless.

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