Recording Trends/Techniques that drive you nuts

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roscoenyc
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Re: Recording Trends/Techniques that drive you nuts

Post by roscoenyc » Wed Apr 07, 2021 6:50 am

they did overdub real cymbals on the Def Leppard record.
They used a famous session guy and did it in a basement with plywood on all the surfaces because Mutt Lange "liked the sound".
But hey, it only took a month?

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Re: Recording Trends/Techniques that drive you nuts

Post by MoreSpaceEcho » Wed Apr 07, 2021 8:21 am

Rodgre wrote:
Wed Apr 07, 2021 3:30 am
some of us old fogies....a lot of newer folks
I was thinking about this thread and how most of us on here seem to not love drum samples and I was wondering if any of us are young (say, under 30)? I most certainly am not! And most of y'all have been here forever too, so you aren't either. Be interested to hear perspectives from younger folks.
ou can't tell me those drums aren't programmed. Also, not one guitar amp used on that record. All direct Rockman guitar tones.
Oh they're programmed for sure, a Fairlight, Pyromania too, the drums were the last thing they did. Guitars were Rockman but IIRC they went through A LOT of other shit as well. I did a deep dive on Hysteria ten years ago, really fun record to listen to. The 'classic albums' for that is one of the few worth watching, even if you hate them (hi tony!), watch that and you'll wanna go in the studio and make something.

Some of the most obvious, hilarious aliasing I've ever heard is on that record, the cymbal crashes at the start of 'women', lots of little space monkeys from the 80s.

And just on the subject of Def Lep, "Let's Get Rocked" came on the radio the other day, I was like "WTF is this?" until it got to the chorus, at which point I said to ms mse "oh this is the song def leppard released in.....1992. How do you think it did?" and she laughed.

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Re: Recording Trends/Techniques that drive you nuts

Post by Magnetic Services » Wed Apr 07, 2021 9:00 am

MoreSpaceEcho wrote:
Wed Apr 07, 2021 8:21 am
I was thinking about this thread and how most of us on here seem to not love drum samples and I was wondering if any of us are young (say, under 30)? I most certainly am not! And most of y'all have been here forever too, so you aren't either. Be interested to hear perspectives from younger folks.
I'm on the cusp of 30 and while I pretty much never use drum samples, I'm not opposed to it. I compose with orchestral sample libraries all the time, but if I'm recording a real band, I'll try everything in the book before resorting to sample replacement. My take is that if it blends in with the sound of the real drum and improves it, who cares? It's only when it sounds cheesy and fake that it becomes a problem. If someone has some diehard moral stance against samples, they're a dinosaur and can go take a hike :D

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Re: Recording Trends/Techniques that drive you nuts

Post by Rodgre » Wed Apr 07, 2021 9:20 am

I'm on the cusp of 50 and started using drum samples around '98 with an Alesis D4 triggered off the tracks, and SoundReplacer in 2001 and Trigger2 now. I use samples all the time, but I also take time to get good drum sounds from the live tracks and I'm using the samples as reinforcement for the most part. I'm not against them, as it's a modern technology that can make my life easier and my drums sound better. I still like the sound of great drums played by a great drummer, though, and I think it's worth taking the time to get the best sounds you can with that source and not just automatically replace everything with samples, just because. Like anything, samples are a tool to get me the end result I want. It's the same thing with vocal tuning. Used when you need it, it's a life saver and no one can tell you did it. Used on everything "just because" it becomes yet another overused gimmick and I'm not into that, personally. I love when I get a great vocal take and I don't have to tune anything. I also have tone-deaf clients who couldn't hit a pitch if it was the side of a barn and I have to tune like a fiend in order to get it to not be offensive. Another useful tool in the quest of making good sounding recordings, which is always my ultimate goal.

Roger
Last edited by Rodgre on Wed Apr 07, 2021 11:53 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Recording Trends/Techniques that drive you nuts

Post by markjazzbassist » Wed Apr 07, 2021 9:52 am

- the modern trend of the wordless hook, just singing OOOOhhhhhh-oh oh OHH oh, or whatever. it's lazy and sounds dumb
- this modern lyrical thing where every song is a self-help motivational speaker lyric. it's like every song is hoping to get sync placed on a cosmetics commerical
- the return to the 80's reverb/delay on the drums thing. all these pop rock songs make the drums sounds like they were recorded in an airplane hanger, WTF? 80's crotch rock sucks, why would someone bring that back?
- Trap 808 snare. for the love of god please stop with that non-stop stuttering 808 snare. its the same beat on every song and now permeates the pop stuff too, random 808 snare sequences to "be hip with the time" FFS

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Re: Recording Trends/Techniques that drive you nuts

Post by kslight » Wed Apr 07, 2021 11:37 am

I am an old by your standards (almost 36). I am fine with sampling as a creative tool (and own many “retro” samplers) but to me when you’ve got a metal or a rock band, replacing the drummer with the same canned samples as everyone else / cutting it locked to the grid does not feel like a creative thing to me and to me doesn’t match the aesthetic. But people have been listening to things like that so long that they probably wouldn’t get it if you turned that shit off. I know recordings are rarely realistic representations of the band, but most of the time I’d take the real performance over some lame typewriter drum kit with red hot chili pepper drum samples.

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Re: Recording Trends/Techniques that drive you nuts

Post by drumsound » Wed Apr 07, 2021 1:37 pm

MoreSpaceEcho wrote:
Wed Apr 07, 2021 8:21 am
Rodgre wrote:
Wed Apr 07, 2021 3:30 am
some of us old fogies....a lot of newer folks
I was thinking about this thread and how most of us on here seem to not love drum samples and I was wondering if any of us are young (say, under 30)? I most certainly am not! And most of y'all have been here forever too, so you aren't either. Be interested to hear perspectives from younger folks.
ou can't tell me those drums aren't programmed. Also, not one guitar amp used on that record. All direct Rockman guitar tones.
Oh they're programmed for sure, a Fairlight, Pyromania too, the drums were the last thing they did. Guitars were Rockman but IIRC they went through A LOT of other shit as well. I did a deep dive on Hysteria ten years ago, really fun record to listen to. The 'classic albums' for that is one of the few worth watching, even if you hate them (hi tony!), watch that and you'll wanna go in the studio and make something.

Some of the most obvious, hilarious aliasing I've ever heard is on that record, the cymbal crashes at the start of 'women', lots of little space monkeys from the 80s.

And just on the subject of Def Lep, "Let's Get Rocked" came on the radio the other day, I was like "WTF is this?" until it got to the chorus, at which point I said to ms mse "oh this is the song def leppard released in.....1992. How do you think it did?" and she laughed.
I love the Classic Albums series, but haven't (and honestly probably won't) watch the Def Leppard or Fleetwood Mac ones, because I just don't care. The literal last thing I want to know about is how Hysteria was made. I don't want any of the shit creeping into my psyche and/or records.

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Re: Recording Trends/Techniques that drive you nuts

Post by analogika » Thu Apr 08, 2021 1:51 am

markjazzbassist wrote:
Wed Apr 07, 2021 9:52 am
- the modern trend of the wordless hook, just singing OOOOhhhhhh-oh oh OHH oh, or whatever. it's lazy and sounds dumb
The Police know where you live.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7v2GDbEmjGE

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Re: Recording Trends/Techniques that drive you nuts

Post by Rodgre » Thu Apr 08, 2021 3:59 am

drumsound wrote:
Wed Apr 07, 2021 1:37 pm
I love the Classic Albums series, but haven't (and honestly probably won't) watch the Def Leppard or Fleetwood Mac ones, because I just don't care. The literal last thing I want to know about is how Hysteria was made. I don't want any of the shit creeping into my psyche and/or records.
So Tony doesn't want to know how a hit record is made! Ha!!!

You're so right, Tony. The Def Leppard/Mutt Lange recording stories are sort of like driving by a massive 10-car pileup on the highway and not looking as you pass. It takes will power to not look. The only credit I can give Mutt for that one is that they set about to make a unique and identifiable, unapologetic smash hit record, and they were very successful. That's not where I'm at in my world, but hey, you do you, Mutt. When I was a kid, I actually liked Def Leppard. Up to a bit of Pyromania, they had their "thing". They had a distinct way to construct chord progressions that made them unique. Steve Clark was an interesting guitar player and made them sound different from all the other British hard rock bands of the time. By the time of Hysteria, Mutt seems to have washed that whole ethos away in favor of just constructing smash radio hits from the ground up. What made them "THEM" was out the window (because those cool chord progressions that I liked didn't sell records to anyone but me). So as a historical document, it's interesting to know the total anal retentive insanity that went into making that record, but, like Tony, I don't want any of those techniques creeping into my bag of tricks. Does that make me anti-success? Serious question. Does that make me actually avoidant of doing what it takes to make a smash hit record (granted, in 1987)? Maybe it does? I hope my clients aren't reading this! Ha! :lol:

I think my only useful takeaway from Mutt's production style is that you will notice that at every 8th note, there is ALWAYS something to focus on and keep your ear engaged. There's a vocal hook, then a guitar hook, then an iconic drum fill, then another vocal hook.... It's just a linear collection of "hooks" and never leaves room for your ear to disengage. It's a very psychological thing and it works very well.

Roger

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Re: Recording Trends/Techniques that drive you nuts

Post by Rodgre » Thu Apr 08, 2021 4:08 am

I don't know if this is true, but it's a great story (therefore probably not true).

Someone once told me that they assisted on a session with that uber-famous producer previously discussed (but I won't mention here, because this might be total bullshit) and he had a huge shipment of TC Electronic 2290 delays brought to the studio. Like 24 of them. He inserted one on each track of the multitrack. He set them all to the same time, say like 20ms. He then set about having the assistant nudge each track forward or backward by changing the delay times. "put the kick later by 5ms....okay, make that 3ms..." He was trying to mess with the feel of the song by altering whether things were ahead or behind each other. It was an interesting experiment. The story I was told had him spending most of the day asking the assistant to nudge things back and forth and back and forth until after several hours he said "that's it. I love the way this feels!" Of course you've figured out by now that by that point, all the delay times were set to the same value again and everything was as it originally was.

Again, probably a totally bullshit story, but an interesting one.

Roger

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Re: Recording Trends/Techniques that drive you nuts

Post by digitaldrummer » Thu Apr 08, 2021 6:20 am

ah yes, the things you could get away with when someone else was paying (the record companies). Unlikely to happen in this day and age. but that probably also contributes to why templates, and presets, and the same samples are used over and over and over and... a few years ago someone in Nashville must have dug up some 80's hair metal templates. If you take away the lyrics, the songs are again the same. :twisted:
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Re: Recording Trends/Techniques that drive you nuts

Post by Nick Sevilla » Thu Apr 08, 2021 6:33 am

Rodgre wrote:
Wed Apr 07, 2021 9:20 am
I'm on the cusp of 50 ...

Roger

GO BACK!!! IT IS ALL MESSED UP HERE AT 51 !!!

:mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen:
Howling at the neighbors. Hoping they have more mic cables.

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Re: Recording Trends/Techniques that drive you nuts

Post by Rodgre » Thu Apr 08, 2021 6:35 am

digitaldrummer wrote:
Thu Apr 08, 2021 6:20 am
a few years ago someone in Nashville must have dug up some 80's hair metal templates. If you take away the lyrics, the songs are again the same. :twisted:
Exactly. I think modern country is directly descendent from 80's hair bands, especially moments like "Every Rose..." By Poison and "Blaze of Glory" by Jon Bon Jovi. Not that they are rewriting those songs, in particular, but those songs bridged the gap between "You Give Love a Bad Name" and country music and kind of opened that door. Plus, I think a lot of modern country fans are 40-50 year olds who grew up on 80's hair rock and that's just where their tastes lie. That's the way it happens.... Same way a lot of modern "americana" made by younger people is what happens when people brought up on boy bands and Disney music get turned on to The Band records. I sound like I'm being negative, but Im not. It's all good. No judging.

Roger

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Re: Recording Trends/Techniques that drive you nuts

Post by Rodgre » Thu Apr 08, 2021 6:37 am

Nick Sevilla wrote:
Thu Apr 08, 2021 6:33 am
Rodgre wrote:
Wed Apr 07, 2021 9:20 am
I'm on the cusp of 50 ...

Roger

GO BACK!!! IT IS ALL MESSED UP HERE AT 51 !!!

:mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen:
trying. so. hard...

btw, I'll bury this here so I don't draw TOOOOO much attention to myself, but this article on my local recording studio scene came out last night:

https://www.worcestermag.com/story/ente ... 968335002/

I appreciate the 20 year old photo of me.

Roger

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Re: Recording Trends/Techniques that drive you nuts

Post by analogika » Thu Apr 08, 2021 7:19 am

Rodgre wrote:
Thu Apr 08, 2021 6:37 am
Nick Sevilla wrote:
Thu Apr 08, 2021 6:33 am
Rodgre wrote:
Wed Apr 07, 2021 9:20 am
I'm on the cusp of 50 ...

Roger

GO BACK!!! IT IS ALL MESSED UP HERE AT 51 !!!

:mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen:
trying. so. hard...

btw, I'll bury this here so I don't draw TOOOOO much attention to myself, but this article on my local recording studio scene came out last night:

https://www.worcestermag.com/story/ente ... 968335002/

I appreciate the 20 year old photo of me.
You're not fooling me! NONE OF THOSE MICS ARE PLUGGED IN.

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