RANT: "in your spare time.."

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trodden
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Re: RANT: "in your spare time.."

Post by trodden » Wed May 05, 2021 10:28 am

Plus... the last 5 years with Drump, the rise of fascism/conservative right, police violence, end-stage capitalism, pandemic, and all around dystopian future... My wife and I have become a bit paranoid prepper types and have enjoyed camping/getting the fuck out of town and head for the mountains/forests as often as we can to practice survival skills, shoot our AK's, or just get the fuck away from all the noise and get lost in nature. It's nice having weekends again. I didn't have weekends between 2005-2015.

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Re: RANT: "in your spare time.."

Post by kslight » Wed May 05, 2021 11:25 am

Scodiddly wrote:
Wed May 05, 2021 6:04 am
kslight wrote:
Tue May 04, 2021 11:14 am
I am reminded of my aunt being surprised at the result of the following situation: she has a high maintenance dog that “needs” specialized grooming because just any pet smart won’t do, she takes it to the breeder for grooming, way out in the sticks. She bought a brand new car recently, and decided she didn’t want to go to the breeder’s house to drop off / pickup the dog, because it’s 3 more miles of dirt road. The breeder / groomer accommodated her request, but also charged an extra $20 for it.

Of course, if you can afford a brand new car and a high maintenance dog, you can afford everything that goes with that (and she certainly can), but I don’t know what she expected.
I suppose a punchline could be that she had bought a Jeep Grand Cherokee or something to handle that little bit of dirt road. :roll:

Ahem.

In the live sound world the equivalent is the "oh by the way", some extra thing that wasn't mentioned when the gig was planned. Like, "oh, can we have the music out in the lobby too?" asked about 5 minutes before doors. Or the dreaded surprise opening act. The usual response is "here is what we can do, and this is how it will impact the schedule". Sending a truck back to the shop for more gear is very definitely NOT free.

Nah, but she did buy the “sportiest” Camry money can buy (prior to this she had a company car to drive on the dirt roads, so she didn’t care, but she’s retired now).

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Re: RANT: "in your spare time.."

Post by kslight » Wed May 05, 2021 11:28 am

It occurred to me that I’m kind of guilty of this in a way - I have a lot of “by the way can you…” moments with my mechanic. I never expect anything for free and it’s never something under a tight timeframe but when you own 3 15+ year old cars, there’s always an “oh by the way” of something else I might need him to do while he’s already got the car. I try not to be this way, I promise…

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Re: RANT: "in your spare time.."

Post by TapeOpLarry » Wed May 05, 2021 1:32 pm

None of us have spare time. My "by the way" tasks usually cost $25+ per. Below if from my $250 per song mix deals:

Extra Fees:
Mixing that needs to be completed by a fixed date will be subject to extra “rush” charge of $75 per song.

Extracting tracks from GarageBand or Logic is $50 per song.
Extracting tracks from Ableton Live is $75 per song.

Extra tracks beyond the 35 limit are $5 per track.

Songs longer than 5 minutes will add $25 per each 30 seconds.

Any further minor mix revisions (post included 2) are $25 per song each round.

Any tracks sent to “add to the mix” post session start (unless requested by me) will cost $25 per track. This includes replacing existing tracks with “tuned” tracks, edits, “fixed” drums, new performances, or less-than-obvious “missing” tracks.

Any requests for stem mix delivery outside of stereo and instrumental mix will cost $25 per pass/stem. Stem requests must be detailed and outlined.

More than one email per mix revision is $50.
Larry Crane, Editor/Founder Tape Op Magazine
please visit www.tapeop.com for contact information
(do not send private messages via this board!)
www.larry-crane.com

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Re: RANT: "in your spare time.."

Post by joninc » Wed May 05, 2021 4:16 pm

TapeOpLarry wrote:
Wed May 05, 2021 1:32 pm
None of us have spare time. My "by the way" tasks usually cost $25+ per. Below if from my $250 per song mix deals:
Are you saying your rate for mixing a song is $250?
More than one email per mix revision is $50.
This is if the client emails you or if you have to email them twice?
the new rules : there are no rules

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Re: RANT: "in your spare time.."

Post by kslight » Wed May 05, 2021 5:07 pm

TapeOpLarry wrote:
Wed May 05, 2021 1:32 pm
None of us have spare time. My "by the way" tasks usually cost $25+ per. Below if from my $250 per song mix deals:

Extra Fees:
Mixing that needs to be completed by a fixed date will be subject to extra “rush” charge of $75 per song.

Extracting tracks from GarageBand or Logic is $50 per song.
Extracting tracks from Ableton Live is $75 per song.

Extra tracks beyond the 35 limit are $5 per track.

Songs longer than 5 minutes will add $25 per each 30 seconds.

Any further minor mix revisions (post included 2) are $25 per song each round.

Any tracks sent to “add to the mix” post session start (unless requested by me) will cost $25 per track. This includes replacing existing tracks with “tuned” tracks, edits, “fixed” drums, new performances, or less-than-obvious “missing” tracks.

Any requests for stem mix delivery outside of stereo and instrumental mix will cost $25 per pass/stem. Stem requests must be detailed and outlined.

More than one email per mix revision is $50.
This explains why your ad in the mag no longer says “not a jerk.” :P

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Re: RANT: "in your spare time.."

Post by TapeOpLarry » Wed May 05, 2021 5:57 pm

joninc wrote:
Wed May 05, 2021 4:16 pm
TapeOpLarry wrote:
Wed May 05, 2021 1:32 pm
None of us have spare time. My "by the way" tasks usually cost $25+ per. Below if from my $250 per song mix deals:
Are you saying your rate for mixing a song is $250?

More than one email per mix revision is $50.
This is if the client emails you or if you have to email them twice?
Yes, $250 is the base rate. People can ask about whole albums too, but that seems rare these days!!

If they send multiple emails about the mix I sent. Like 1 from each member, or different requests in many diff emails. "Oh, by the way, the trumpet on verse 2...." - Guess what? I get 1 email per revision round now! I don't charge if I email and ask question or clarify. It's just so I get 1 document with all the changes and that is it. No collating or chasing down 14 emails!

And I may be a jerk, but I hide it well.
Larry Crane, Editor/Founder Tape Op Magazine
please visit www.tapeop.com for contact information
(do not send private messages via this board!)
www.larry-crane.com

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Re: RANT: "in your spare time.."

Post by TapeOpLarry » Wed May 05, 2021 6:02 pm

All of this is about getting the clients to understand how to best interface with me so I can focus on mixing. Here's the whole thing about my $250 mixes:

$250 Mixing Info for Larry Crane 2021

If you haven’t worked with me, I’d love to show you what I can bring to your tracks. If you have used my mixing services before you know what I bring to the music.

Why Hire Me?
Here’s a playlist of many songs I’ve worked on the last 20 years or so. Many of these I mixed.
https://open.spotify.com/user/tapeopmag ... YIIfeL135Q
Personal website about my career: http://www.larry-crane.com
My studio: http://jackpotrecording.com
The magazine I founded, co-own, and edit: https://tapeop.com

$250 Rate Stipulations:
$250 rate is per song - more than one song is fine!
Track count must be under 36 mono tracks or less than 18 stereo tracks (any combo that equals 35 tracks total).
Song length must be 5 minutes or less.
This is for Unattended Mixing Sessions only and I will do the mix at my first available open time.

What I Will Deliver:
For $250 I will deliver a stereo mix of the song as well as an instrumental mix (if possible). All estimates include two mix revisions at no extra charge, with a cutoff date of two weeks post initial mix. Once mixes are paid for, full resolution stereo mixes and instrumental mixes will be sent via upload. In most cases MP3 versions of mixes will be created for reference - please be aware that these are not to be mastered from.

Please note: I will only be MIXING. I will not be tuning vocals, editing drum timing, comping vocals, mastering, sorting out which tracks to mute, creating guitar sounds from scratch, or moving drum parts around in songs. The tracks you send me, in the timing they are in, are what I will mix from. You hired me to mix, not produce or edit or master. I do not do mastering!

The two included passes of mix revisions must be submitted as a single email each time, and not from various emails or from multiple parties. Failure to follow this rule will result in an extra $50 fee per song for each instance.

Credits
Credits will read “Mixed by Larry Crane at Jackpot! Recording Studio”.

Extra Fees:
Mixing that needs to be completed by a fixed date will be subject to extra “rush” charge of $75 per song.

Extracting tracks from GarageBand or Logic is $50 per song.
Extracting tracks from Ableton Live is $75 per song.

Extra tracks beyond the 35 limit are $5 per track.

Songs longer than 5 minutes will add $25 per each 30 seconds.

Any further minor mix revisions (post included 2) are $25 per song each round.

Any tracks sent to “add to the mix” post session start (unless requested by me) will cost $25 per track. This includes replacing existing tracks with “tuned” tracks, edits, “fixed” drums, new performances, or less-than-obvious “missing” tracks.

Any requests for stem mix delivery outside of stereo and instrumental mix will cost $25 per pass/stem. Stem requests must be detailed and outlined.

More than one email per mix revision is $50. See above.

Larger projects for first time clients, like batches of songs or an album mix, will have a deposit fee of $50 per song (to be applied towards final cost).

I reserve the right to pass on work once I’ve received the files and determined the work involved might be too much for the $250 rate. If so I will quote a new rate.

Legal and Billing
All mixes, files, hard drives, or master tapes, etc. shall remain the property of Jackpot! Recording Studio, Inc. until all invoices are paid in full. Payment is due upon delivery of the first round of mixes, before the 2 sets of revisions. You will be sent a bill that is payable online at that time. Only when the bill is paid in full will high res final mix files be delivered online. Jackpot! accepts payment by payable by Visa, MasterCard, Discover, American Express, Apple Pay, or via check (it will take you longer to get final files). International Wire Transfer payments will cost you an additional $30 to cover bank fees.


UPLOADING FILES FOR MIXING

Upload your sessions or files via the usual sites. I can supply a Dropbox link if you really need it.

For details on what to send me, you can access “Getting your digital tracks ready for mixing with Larry Crane” here:
https://docs.google.com/document/d/e/2P ... o0WWaT/pub
Larry Crane, Editor/Founder Tape Op Magazine
please visit www.tapeop.com for contact information
(do not send private messages via this board!)
www.larry-crane.com

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Re: RANT: "in your spare time.."

Post by DrummerMan » Wed May 05, 2021 10:18 pm

trodden wrote:
Wed May 05, 2021 10:19 am
Ok, i'm going to build out the garage. It's not going to be as fancy as I had hoped and planned in my daydreams. I can't afford that and that will take me another three years.
Just wanted to chime in and say that I feel your sentiment about making a studio that will work, and realistically happen, instead of holding out for that perfect situation.

I planned a build out in my garage for years, and slowly worked on it for MANY years, doing little bits at a time, then moving all my shit back in and working out of there until I was motivated to do a little more. I finally came up with a plan that wasn't perfect by any means, but was doable. When I started the last push of building, I thought about posting a studio build here or somewhere, but the very thought of exposing myself to the masses' thoughts about proper construction and calculators and the many ways I was doing it so wrong that it wasn't worth doing it at all, that I would've never gotten off the ground. In the end, I just built the best studio I could with the situation as it was, and in the end it actually turned out a whole lot better than I expected (it's not COMPLETELY completely done, I've still got some more room treatment to do, but that's just a matter of money for rigid fiberglass).

I don't know what my point is, but your post about your studio build hesitation resonated with me and I thought I'd share my experience.
Geoff Mann
composer | drummer | Los Angeles, CA

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Re: RANT: "in your spare time.."

Post by digitaldrummer » Thu May 06, 2021 6:44 am

TapeOpLarry wrote:
Wed May 05, 2021 6:02 pm
All of this is about getting the clients to understand how to best interface with me so I can focus on mixing.
good stuff. By setting proper expectations up front, then there are no surprises and it usually goes smoothly.

my challenge is always getting clients to read past the first sentence on my website...
Mike
www.studiodrumtracks.com -- Drum tracks starting at $50!
www.doubledogrecording.com

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Re: RANT: "in your spare time.."

Post by digitaldrummer » Thu May 06, 2021 6:52 am

DrummerMan wrote:
Wed May 05, 2021 10:18 pm
trodden wrote:
Wed May 05, 2021 10:19 am
Ok, i'm going to build out the garage. It's not going to be as fancy as I had hoped and planned in my daydreams.
Just wanted to chime in and say that I feel your sentiment about making a studio that will work, and realistically happen, instead of holding out for that perfect situation.
ok, since we are already OT....I agree with both. when I built mine I very loosely applied some "best practices" (Gervais, etc.) but I also knew I was doing it myself (meaning without professional acousticians) and adding features (such as a vaulted ceiling) that did not fit the "models". when it was finished I was ecstatic because it sounded great - and not just for drums. a whole band playing sounded great too. Anyway, fast forward to a couple of months ago when I bought a measurement mic... As I was doing that I thought, wow, this could be really stressful... and had to remind myself that my studio was not created in a test tube and it is what it is. And I've been very happy with the recordings, mixes, and (pseudo) mastering that I've done there. I did make a couple minor changes, and moved some things around, and learned in the process, but in the end, the setup is back to where I started because it works for me. I can't wait to get a band in here again!
Mike
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www.doubledogrecording.com

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Re: RANT: "in your spare time.."

Post by trodden » Thu May 06, 2021 8:31 am

digitaldrummer wrote:
Thu May 06, 2021 6:52 am
DrummerMan wrote:
Wed May 05, 2021 10:18 pm
trodden wrote:
Wed May 05, 2021 10:19 am
Ok, i'm going to build out the garage. It's not going to be as fancy as I had hoped and planned in my daydreams.
Just wanted to chime in and say that I feel your sentiment about making a studio that will work, and realistically happen, instead of holding out for that perfect situation.
ok, since we are already OT....I agree with both. when I built mine I very loosely applied some "best practices" (Gervais, etc.) but I also knew I was doing it myself (meaning without professional acousticians) and adding features (such as a vaulted ceiling) that did not fit the "models". when it was finished I was ecstatic because it sounded great - and not just for drums. a whole band playing sounded great too. Anyway, fast forward to a couple of months ago when I bought a measurement mic... As I was doing that I thought, wow, this could be really stressful... and had to remind myself that my studio was not created in a test tube and it is what it is. And I've been very happy with the recordings, mixes, and (pseudo) mastering that I've done there. I did make a couple minor changes, and moved some things around, and learned in the process, but in the end, the setup is back to where I started because it works for me. I can't wait to get a band in here again!
Thanks for the input DrummerMan and digitaldrummer. It helps.
I don't even post questions or ideas on the John Sayer's web board anymore because I get bashed from all the people who build studios for rich people just so they can say they have studio rather than DIY punk rockers like the rest of us who have made records in less than ideal situations. I've gotten a lot of info from that board, it's been priceless, as well as the Gervais book(s). But, anytime I posted an question or idea or plan on that board, my hesitation was increased due to so much "YOU CAN'T/WHY DO THAT?" along with the expectations that I have 100k to build a 400 sq foot studio or that the "One room studio" or "control room-less studio" doesn't work, although my last studio space of 8 years was like that and worked great for me.

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Re: RANT: "in your spare time.."

Post by digitaldrummer » Thu May 06, 2021 11:07 am

sometimes I wish I had an iso booth, or a separate control room, but I don't have either so I just make it work. :lol:
Mike
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www.doubledogrecording.com

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Re: RANT: "in your spare time.."

Post by DrummerMan » Thu May 06, 2021 11:28 am

trodden wrote:
Thu May 06, 2021 8:31 am
I don't even post questions or ideas on the John Sayer's web board anymore
Posting on Sayers to me at this point is equivalent to deciding to read the comments on a FB post about Star Wars: an anxiety attack waiting to happen.
Geoff Mann
composer | drummer | Los Angeles, CA

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Re: RANT: "in your spare time.."

Post by kslight » Thu May 06, 2021 11:29 am

trodden wrote:
Thu May 06, 2021 8:31 am
digitaldrummer wrote:
Thu May 06, 2021 6:52 am
DrummerMan wrote:
Wed May 05, 2021 10:18 pm


Just wanted to chime in and say that I feel your sentiment about making a studio that will work, and realistically happen, instead of holding out for that perfect situation.
ok, since we are already OT....I agree with both. when I built mine I very loosely applied some "best practices" (Gervais, etc.) but I also knew I was doing it myself (meaning without professional acousticians) and adding features (such as a vaulted ceiling) that did not fit the "models". when it was finished I was ecstatic because it sounded great - and not just for drums. a whole band playing sounded great too. Anyway, fast forward to a couple of months ago when I bought a measurement mic... As I was doing that I thought, wow, this could be really stressful... and had to remind myself that my studio was not created in a test tube and it is what it is. And I've been very happy with the recordings, mixes, and (pseudo) mastering that I've done there. I did make a couple minor changes, and moved some things around, and learned in the process, but in the end, the setup is back to where I started because it works for me. I can't wait to get a band in here again!
Thanks for the input DrummerMan and digitaldrummer. It helps.
I don't even post questions or ideas on the John Sayer's web board anymore because I get bashed from all the people who build studios for rich people just so they can say they have studio rather than DIY punk rockers like the rest of us who have made records in less than ideal situations. I've gotten a lot of info from that board, it's been priceless, as well as the Gervais book(s). But, anytime I posted an question or idea or plan on that board, my hesitation was increased due to so much "YOU CAN'T/WHY DO THAT?" along with the expectations that I have 100k to build a 400 sq foot studio or that the "One room studio" or "control room-less studio" doesn't work, although my last studio space of 8 years was like that and worked great for me.

This was my experience with that board. Believe me, if I had that kind of money to build my home studio, I would hire a contractor/not strain myself with inane technical details, and not be here asking “dumb” amateur questions.

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