DIY DI full range guitar questions

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JES
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DIY DI full range guitar questions

Post by JES » Sun May 16, 2021 8:01 am

Greetings. This is a companion thread to "DIY December Drum recording." To recap, my wife and I formed a 2-piece during the pandemic and wrote 8 songs. We are going to record ourselves. (Now in July, not December)

In our duo, I play a touch guitar, which is tuned Bb0-D6. So I am covering both bass and guitar parts. I have recorded myself a lot over the years and know how to get sounds that I like, but I want to do a little planning here. The instrument is a mono instrument and is intended that way, so it's not like a Warr guitar or Chapman stick with separate "bass" and "guitar" outputs.

Our vibe is somewhere between 90s indie-rock and post-metal.

The easiest thing for me to do is simply run through my pedalboard and into a Sansamp VTBass, take one channel with all the processing and one without the amp sim. Then I can try reamping the non-simmed version to see if I can get something I like better.

BUT: where to take the clean sound? a) straight from the instrument b) after my dirt and pitch pedals but before the H9s so I can calibrate the sounds of the reverbs and delays in the actual recording c) after the H9s (see below) but before the amp sim?

ALSO: on my pedalboard I have a pair of Eventide H9s that I can run mono or stereo. When we play, I normally just run them mono and before the front end of the amp, as I like dirtying up the delays and reverbs. I use delay and reverb as effects, feedback washes, etc.--they are part of my sound.
Is there any advantage to running the H9s in stereo? This gets a little complicated as I'd have to set it up for each song. But maybe that makes more sense in a 2-piece? But then, I'm running the session as well and the less I have to think about in-session, the better chance I have of getting a decent take.

TIA!

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Re: DIY DI full range guitar questions

Post by MoreSpaceEcho » Sun May 16, 2021 8:15 am

JES wrote:
Sun May 16, 2021 8:01 am
I'm running the session as well and the less I have to think about in-session, the better chance I have of getting a decent take.
I feel like this overrules all else. I'd say just keep doing what you've been doing.

Magnetic Services
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Re: DIY DI full range guitar questions

Post by Magnetic Services » Sun May 16, 2021 10:04 am

JES wrote:
Sun May 16, 2021 8:01 am
BUT: where to take the clean sound? a) straight from the instrument b) after my dirt and pitch pedals but before the H9s so I can calibrate the sounds of the reverbs and delays in the actual recording c) after the H9s (see below) but before the amp sim?
Can you do both? You might like the dirty sound for 99% of the tracks but having that clean track straight from the instrument could save your ass in a pinch. If I were you I'd take a DI output after each stage (clean, dirty, pitch, reverb). In most situations that's way overkill, but for a two-piece where your instrument is at least 50% of the sound, having those options might be super important.

The key is to make it set-and-forget. Spend a day hooking everything up and making a template with as many tracks as you need for the most complex song, then just use that for everything so you don't have to think about it as much later.

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Re: DIY DI full range guitar questions

Post by The Scum » Sun May 16, 2021 11:29 am

Agree with both of the above. If you want to work simply and quickly, do that. And a clean DI can be a lifesaver if the electronics get out of control.

Are you trying to capture everything 100% live, or are you open to overdubbing? Sometimes that allows you to dial in different sounds more accurately, especially switching between clean & dirty. Beats having to compromise on one or the other.

It sounds like the rig is somewhat experimental as it is, so you could consider recording it as an extension of the experiment. Play around, keep what works, discard what doesn't.

Also, with a pair of H9's hanging around, I'd find a way to bring them back in at mix time, even if it's just utilitarian reverb.
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Re: DIY DI full range guitar questions

Post by dave watkins » Sun May 16, 2021 12:50 pm

If y'all have been rehearsing and doing pre-production and are happy with the sounds you are getting, I would make sure to just go for it and figure out a way to capture those sounds as is. There's so much to be said for committing to a sound, and setting up a recording session so you can just play and not worry too much about getting 4 or 5 different options in one go, you're just going to end up with a lot of stuff to pick from later that may not be needed. Focusing on getting the technology to feel more in the background so you can bring the performance and song to the forefront when self-tracking is huge.

That said, in addition to capturing your as is sound, it definitely doesn't hurt to have one di on the way from your instrument to your pedals so that you are just capturing an ultra dry direct track that you can do whatever with later on if you need to. Whether that's in the box amp sims (the neural dsp stuff is really good for cleans and over the top distortion, and have fully functional demos worth checking out) or reamped through real amps or pedals or whatever, you'll have some flexibility without eating up all your inputs during tracking.

and yeah you can always get wild with overdubs later and treat the live tracks as scratch tracks to some extent, as long as you are accounting for the bleed in the drum mics of course (which can add a ton of vibe to a recording if you're intentional about it). I've done a few sessions that are remote one room setups where i've tracked drums with mics and everybody else direct with amps sims as scratch tracks, then gone back and overdubbed guitars with mic'd amps. That's also a good way to get some isolation on the drums in less than ideal conditions but still feel like a live, "everyone in the same room" performance.
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Re: DIY DI full range guitar questions

Post by vvv » Sun May 16, 2021 3:13 pm

Record as you play, take a clean DI, re-amp the latter as you like, perhaps thru the stereo H9(s) and two amps (or one stereo side thru the amp at a time).

You might then use the re-amped tracks to replace the original, or in parallel to it, if only in places.
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Re: DIY DI full range guitar questions

Post by JES » Mon May 17, 2021 5:21 am

Thanks everybody.

I think if I can spare the channels, I'll go with three DIs then: 1) straight from instrument 2) after dirt, before time-based effects and 3) after time based effects, with VTDI sim on and set to taste. That gives me one "finished" track and two other options if the "finished" version isn't to my taste.

There are other amps in the room, too, so I'll have options for overdubbing.

That should be sufficient for me.

I will be ampless. The most important thing is to get a great drum sound and performance. If I have to redo my parts via overdub, that's fine, though I'd rather just nail them apart from a little nudge here or there.

All of our songs are carefully arranged (we've recorded together in other bands and know the drill) and we rehearse a couple times a week. So we'll just screw up the normal amount once we get the recording happening.

PS -- As for mixing: Eventide very kindly gave all H9 Max owners native versions of all their H9 plugins that had been ported.

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Re: DIY DI full range guitar questions

Post by JES » Wed Jul 07, 2021 8:43 am

Just to wrap up the thread:

I went with 3 DIs: pre everything, pre time-based effects through the VTDI, with amp sim on, and post-time-based effects.

For almost everything, I will be using a combination of the first two, and adding time-based effect ITB, or by going back through my H9 so I can get the exact balance and EQ I want. It was super simple and worked great.

I also did my first reamping via the Red Eye, so the DI track has proven more than useful already.

Thanks to everyone for their help and suggestions!

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Re: DIY DI full range guitar questions

Post by Magnetic Services » Wed Jul 07, 2021 9:51 am

Nice, glad it worked out! Feel free to post WIP tracks and/or the final release!

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