PC experts needed for upgrade quest

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joninc
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Re: PC experts needed for upgrade quest

Post by joninc » Wed Jul 07, 2021 1:52 pm

Are there any motherboard brands that are known to handle audio better? Any to avoid?
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Magnetic Services
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Re: PC experts needed for upgrade quest

Post by Magnetic Services » Wed Jul 07, 2021 6:37 pm

joninc wrote:
Wed Jul 07, 2021 1:52 pm
Are there any motherboard brands that are known to handle audio better? Any to avoid?
Are you talking about the built-in I/O? Are you not using an external interface?

Aside from that, I don't think the motherboard would really have any effect on audio. It's more about CPU and RAM. I could be wrong, though.

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Re: PC experts needed for upgrade quest

Post by digitaldrummer » Thu Jul 08, 2021 6:12 am

I would agree. if the motherboard is good for anything - then audio will be fine. the OP mentioned a PCIe interface... And that card is probably PCIe Gen1 or Gen2 and most PC motherboards are going to be PCIe Gen3... and that is all backward compatible, so the card should work fine. And yes, CPU and memory are what is going to make everything else go faster.

sidenote - I was zipping up some files for a client (before uploading) yesterday and I noticed that alone takes about 1/2 the time it used to on my old system. not a big deal, but it's less time wasted just sitting there waiting for something to happen and it all adds up.
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Re: PC experts needed for upgrade quest

Post by joninc » Thu Jul 08, 2021 9:17 pm

is the NVMe SSD a noticeable improvement over the SATA ?
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Re: PC experts needed for upgrade quest

Post by digitaldrummer » Fri Jul 09, 2021 7:11 am

joninc wrote:
Thu Jul 08, 2021 9:17 pm
is the NVMe SSD a noticeable improvement over the SATA ?
only if you have something that takes advantage of it. if you are copying files from a USB stick you won't see a difference. If you are copying files between 2 x NVMe, then probably. If you have a large session (it might load faster) or one that has a lot of small edits, then the NVMe would probably perform better. But would it be a noticeable difference? hard to say and would probably vary from session to session.

but.... SATA SSDS will probably eventually be replaced by NVMe (when the prices are the same - in a lot of desktops its really close now). SATA is older technology, and bandwidth limited while NVMe is the future. But a SATA SSD is still most likely way faster than your current HDD and they are relatively cheap. I wouldn't sweat it if you get one vs the other (especially as a boot drive).
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Re: PC experts needed for upgrade quest

Post by joninc » Thu Jul 15, 2021 10:24 am

oh dang - i just realized that my RME is PCI not PCIe - does anyone know of any motherboards still made with PCI slots?

also re: NVMe - won't having this as the C drive start up apps faster and render mix exports etc more quickly?
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Re: PC experts needed for upgrade quest

Post by digitaldrummer » Thu Jul 15, 2021 11:00 am

I think you may have a difficult time finding a "new" system that supports PCI. If a system does have a PCI slot, it's likely to be through a bridge - which technically makes it work - but latency may be higher.

You didn't specifically say which RME interface you have, but you might think about a newer interface if you can. I'm sure that almost anything on the market today probably has better converters than your PCI card (which is old now by comparison). That card may even be a bottleneck that would prevent a new system from running any faster than your old system. I'm guessing it has only 32-bit drivers? How many I/O do you use/need?

It also would allow you to build an entirely new system, with a modern 64-bit OS (a 32-bit OS will only really let you use about 3.5GB of memory even if you install more...),and you could set them up side by side - so if for some reason the new system was not doing something you needed, you could always hook up the old one - and then eventually you would migrate everything to the new system. that may be easier than moving things over where you can't really go back easily. honestly I think that would save you a ton of headaches in the long run.

and for the NVMe question - as I said earlier it depends. will it be faster? faster than what? Faster than a spinning HDD. absolutely. Faster than a SATA SSD - maybe, maybe not. There are so many factors -- such as what kind of drives you are comparing. There are different technologies within the SSD families. A lot depends on the type of NAND (flash) used and how it is architected. You really have to look at the specs, but you also have to know what your current performance is, or perhaps what the limitations of your current drive are, to know if you would get any benefit out of an NVMe vs. a SATA SSD. for most "boot" NVMe that might come stock in a system, it might get you a little better read performance, but probably not better write performance (and it could even be worse)
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Re: PC experts needed for upgrade quest

Post by joninc » Thu Jul 15, 2021 11:52 am

Valid points - a few bits of info:

- my RME is a 9652 which basically is taking optical in and out of a RADAR V into my Pc (cubase). I'm not planning on replacing the radar anytime soon.

- I am using a 64 bit OS and DAW currently

- There is a Asus mobo that is currently made and has a PCI slot and will support 10th gen Intel i7 or i9.

ASUS PRIME B460-PLUS LGA 1200 (Intel® 1 ... Sync RGB)

- There is also a RME Raydat PCIe card but that is an additional $1000 (CAD)

There's also a PCIe to PCI adapter expansion box made by Startech which is approx $400

https://www.amazon.ca/gp/product/B002I9 ... EEQB&psc=1
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Re: PC experts needed for upgrade quest

Post by digitaldrummer » Thu Jul 15, 2021 12:18 pm

yeah, that board looks like it would cover everything you need. interestingly it seems to be the last chipset from Intel that has the PCIe to PCI bridge (meaning 11th gen chipsets won't support PCI). So this might be your best bet. I would avoid any external PCie to PCI adapter.

and good for RME if they developed a 64-bit Windows driver for that PCI interface (says something about their support for sure). although a newer interface is probably higher quality, it's always at a price....

so looks like you know which way to go now!
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Re: PC experts needed for upgrade quest

Post by Magnetic Services » Thu Jul 15, 2021 2:35 pm

joninc wrote:
Thu Jul 15, 2021 11:52 am
Valid points - a few bits of info:

- my RME is a 9652 which basically is taking optical in and out of a RADAR V into my Pc (cubase). I'm not planning on replacing the radar anytime soon.

- I am using a 64 bit OS and DAW currently

- There is a Asus mobo that is currently made and has a PCI slot and will support 10th gen Intel i7 or i9.

ASUS PRIME B460-PLUS LGA 1200 (Intel® 1 ... Sync RGB)

- There is also a RME Raydat PCIe card but that is an additional $1000 (CAD)

There's also a PCIe to PCI adapter expansion box made by Startech which is approx $400

https://www.amazon.ca/gp/product/B002I9 ... EEQB&psc=1
Glad you found a motherboard that will support your needs, but keep in mind that the motherboard is the biggest pain in the ass to replace because it means basically taking your entire computer apart. Intentionally going with an older chipset will mean you'll have to do that sooner, even if it's a matter of 3 years vs. 5 years or whatever.

Are you opposed to swapping out the RME card for something newer? If all it's doing is optical in/out, wouldn't it make sense to get something that does the same thing but more futureproof? That way you could build the PC you want without worrying about sticking with legacy stuff like PCI.

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Re: PC experts needed for upgrade quest

Post by winky dinglehoffer » Thu Jul 15, 2021 3:21 pm

joninc wrote:
Thu Jul 15, 2021 11:52 am


There's also a PCIe to PCI adapter expansion box made by Startech which is approx $400

https://www.amazon.ca/gp/product/B002I9 ... EEQB&psc=1
Would something like this work? Seems like it might, but I'm no expert.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/333822265993?_ ... %3A2334524

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Re: PC experts needed for upgrade quest

Post by joninc » Thu Jul 15, 2021 4:50 pm

Magnetic Services wrote:
Thu Jul 15, 2021 2:35 pm
Glad you found a motherboard that will support your needs, but keep in mind that the motherboard is the biggest pain in the ass to replace because it means basically taking your entire computer apart. Intentionally going with an older chipset will mean you'll have to do that sooner, even if it's a matter of 3 years vs. 5 years or whatever.

Are you opposed to swapping out the RME card for something newer? If all it's doing is optical in/out, wouldn't it make sense to get something that does the same thing but more futureproof? That way you could build the PC you want without worrying about sticking with legacy stuff like PCI.
I totally hear what you are saying - but the appropriate card adds $1000 to the cost and that puts the whole thing way over the top financially.

Do you think that this motherboard looks problematic in some way?

I think it is more likely that I replace my converters and PCI card in the next 5 years and move towards something like MADI that will allow higher sample rates etc. (I actually have a madi pcie card - but I am trying to source the dig madi card for my radar (which is quite hard to find now).
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Re: PC experts needed for upgrade quest

Post by digitaldrummer » Thu Jul 15, 2021 5:05 pm

winky dinglehoffer wrote:
Thu Jul 15, 2021 3:21 pm

Would something like this work? Seems like it might, but I'm no expert.
personally I would not venture down that road. you are likely to be frustrated and severely disappointed. btw, there are some used RME PCIe cards on Reverb and such for 1/2 the price of new if that's something you would consider. not sure what RME's used support policy is.
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Re: PC experts needed for upgrade quest

Post by Magnetic Services » Thu Jul 15, 2021 5:40 pm

joninc wrote:
Thu Jul 15, 2021 4:50 pm
Do you think that this motherboard looks problematic in some way?
Nope! I actually have the next model up (Prime B550 Plus) and it's served me well so far. My only complaint is Asus' online resources and customer service suck. It's all either badly translated or unhelpful, and god help you if you have to try to contact them. But it does seem like the best option for your existing setup.

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Re: PC experts needed for upgrade quest

Post by MoreSpaceEcho » Fri Jul 16, 2021 6:51 am

Just keep in mind that if you're running that PCI card through a bridge (which you almost certainly are), that's likely going to be your bottleneck, especially if you're running high sample rates. Their performance is way worse when running through the PCI-e bridge, that's according to Paul at Lynx, who helped me out on my previous build. On my new build I replaced my old PCI card with PCI-e.

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