What mics for female rock vocalist (alto)? Plus a couple vocal recording questions

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What mics for female rock vocalist (alto)? Plus a couple vocal recording questions

Post by JES » Wed Jul 07, 2021 8:29 am

Greetings. Here's my next question for our project. I need some guidance on mics for alto female rock vocals. My wife (and drummer, and singer in this project) is a most laid-back singer, has a range of about 12-15 semitones, and the vocals are for music that is somewhere between indy-rock, post-metal, and space rock.

The closest we've found to her style is Matt Talbot of Hum, who's a little lower in pitch, but she has just over a 1-octave range and tends toward more "laid" back vocalizing. She'll yell at one point on the record, but it's just once.

Here's an example from Hum (vocals start around 1:20). Yes, I know it's multiple tracks of vocals.

https://humband.bandcamp.com/track/the-summoning

Our instrumentation is a little less thick (it's just her on drum and me on a full range guitar, but I am very generous with the distortion).

Unlike a lot of female singers in online mic demos, she sings in her speaking range.

An engineer friend suggested recording with a SM58 and a LDC, and then blending them to taste. But not which kind of LDC.

I can try my whole mic cabinet on her, except for us running out of patience. But I'm wondering if there's something else I should be looking at. I'm definitely due to buy a really great vocal mic. Candidates that I have already:

Shure SM7, SM57, SM58, KSM 32
AT 4050
Beyer M160, M210

Things I'm thinking about:
Other dynamics -- Sennheiser 441?
Other ribbons?
Something like an 87, 47 (tube, fet?), 251 or C12? Or one of the more modern alternatives (bock/Soundelux, Perlmann, Lauten, etc)? If so, which would you try? I have had good success on other vocalists in the past with an 87ai. I used a 47 (not fet) once and liked it but didn't find it very rock and roll on a soprano voice, and imagine it would add too much bass and "chest" to an alto voice, but what do I know?

I would probably purchase a clone, though I might be able to rent or borrow the real thing.

One other question:

If we double or triple vocals, what's your opinion of having the vocalist not singing the "s" sounds at the beginnings of words on the overdubs? In the past, I've tried it as a way of naturally reducing sibilance, though I now have Izotope Ozone, and think their spectral de-esser is pretty awesome.

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Re: What mics for female rock vocalist (alto)? Plus a couple vocal recording questions

Post by digitaldrummer » Wed Jul 07, 2021 10:07 am

before the pandemic, I recorded a band with a female singer (gospel band, but really kinda more old school soul IMO). I used a Shure SM7B into an LA-610 with just a touch of compression. We just got back to this project and the live vocal sounds great. We then decided to use the same chain for a couple minor punch-ins (and curiously my LA-610 was still set to the same exact pre-pandemic settings!) and it still sounds great. I had chosen this mic because it is fairly good at rejection and I had everyone in the same room with baffles. but the mic captured her voice really well and every so often she pushes the tubes on the LA-610 and it's fantastic.

then for the harmony vocals (which are male) I used a couple Weird Audio W47's (tube U47 clones) into Hairball Copper preamps. They wanted to sing at the same time. I agree the 47 can get a little too thick sometimes, but if I push the polar pattern a click or 2 towards omni, then it smooths out a bit and some HPF later gets applied anyway. Again I like it. I've also used the Weird Audio Little Red Monster on both male and female vocals and it does an excellent job too. hardly needs any EQ to get a great sound.

btw, if you check the Guitar Center website for Weird Audio, you will find a bargain on a couple of LRM's right now. They show as "used" but I'm pretty sure they are open box/demo units. And if you didn't like it, GC is pretty good about returns on used equipment. And check the Tape Op review of this mic.

and I always tend to heavily de-ess or even edit (with fades or EQ) the S or hard consonants on doubles
Last edited by digitaldrummer on Wed Jul 07, 2021 10:13 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: What mics for female rock vocalist (alto)? Plus a couple vocal recording questions

Post by digitaldrummer » Wed Jul 07, 2021 10:09 am

for an example, ALL of the vocals were cut with the Weird Audio Little Red Monster on this track:

https://themthatknow.bandcamp.com/track/alone-together
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Re: What mics for female rock vocalist (alto)? Plus a couple vocal recording questions

Post by A.David.MacKinnon » Wed Jul 07, 2021 12:30 pm

drumsound wrote:
Wed Jul 07, 2021 11:48 am
How does she sound on the mics you own?
Always the best answer.
Beyond that, I've had good luck with u87s on some female singers. More then on men most times. The 4050 can be a really solid choice on voices that don't work with an 87.

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Re: What mics for female rock vocalist (alto)? Plus a couple vocal recording questions

Post by JES » Wed Jul 07, 2021 5:21 pm

Thanks folks. She sounds good on the SM7, and through the 58. I did a sound art piece with her reading a user agreement on the SM7 and it's quite solid. The 4050 is clear and good but not "flattering" -- but then maybe I don't want that? IDK. In practice she uses a small head-worn DPA (very handy if you're also drumming because you're always in front of the mic), but it's not right for the studio. it's just hard for me to figure out whether I want the condenser detail, and if I do, what kind of detail I want. I don't have enough experience recording singers in her range or for the genre.

@digitaldrummer--the vocals sound great! And the Guitar Center deal is a screamer on a 47-style mic like that. We will see if they will ship to Canada.

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Re: What mics for female rock vocalist (alto)? Plus a couple vocal recording questions

Post by Scodiddly » Wed Jul 07, 2021 6:58 pm

I find a Sennheiser 441 to be kind of neutral on singers, for me it's more of an instrument mic.

However, a Sennheiser 431 sounds really amazing on some voices, it really brings something out especially more on the blues/jazz kind of voices.

I'd start by doing a quick test on all the mics you have, often one will jump out at you as clearly the best mic for that voice.

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Re: What mics for female rock vocalist (alto)? Plus a couple vocal recording questions

Post by digitaldrummer » Thu Jul 08, 2021 6:06 am

JES wrote:
Wed Jul 07, 2021 5:21 pm
the Guitar Center deal is a screamer on a 47-style mic like that. We will see if they will ship to Canada.
technically I think the Little Red Monster is more of a U67-style circuit (although sound-wise it's probably closer to a U87). Weird also has a U47 style (the W47) but it costs a bit more.
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Re: What mics for female rock vocalist (alto)? Plus a couple vocal recording questions

Post by losthighway » Thu Jul 08, 2021 6:17 am

Good advice so far.

I'd say if she's in the backup vocal role, something clear and slightly brighter like your description of the AT 4050 is probably perfect, especially if her delivery is gentle like you said. But you might look for something meatier (SM7?) if she's the lead.

As for doubling, tripling vocals that gets more complex. I find laying off of sibilants, especially at the end of words is smart if the person is doing a double as a background for another person's part. If they're the lead vocal and you like the slew of multiple unison takes (I never do, but I have a client who always insists) some singers can do this very well and then one take's 's' is no more of a concern than the primary one. The important thing is that their cadences match almost perfectly. You can always edit a late sibilant or two if it's faster than obsessing over nuances of takes while pitch matching is challenging enough.

The thing that's made doubled lead vocals tolerable to my ears (again don't like them unless its Elliott Smith, Jim O'Rourke once said the lead vocalist is the narrator of the story, so it doesn't make sense to overly cloud or abstract that narrative voice), is picking the strongest take as the proper lead, then mixing the doubles 5-10 db lower. Sometimes I like there to be less compression on the doubles and just volume automate anything that sticks out as a little too loud, so that there is a really defined lead with a softer cloud behind it. Sometimes cutting treble can help it tuck in nicer as more of a verb/delay support and avoid those cluttery sibilants you're concerned about.

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Re: What mics for female rock vocalist (alto)? Plus a couple vocal recording questions

Post by MoreSpaceEcho » Thu Jul 08, 2021 8:33 am

^^^^^ Good advice right there.

Honestly, as far as the mic, you're not going to do much better than the SM7 IMO, it just works. I have that and a 4050, I remember trying both of them on a singer once and the consensus in the room was "the 4050 sounds "better" but the SM7 sounds better."

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Re: What mics for female rock vocalist (alto)? Plus a couple vocal recording questions

Post by permanent hearing damage » Thu Jul 08, 2021 8:57 am

Of the mics you listed in your locker, I would probably reach for the SM7 first. But if she is pretty quiet, it might be a little on the noisy side, depending on your mic pre situation. I've never used a KSM32, but I would probably try that next. 4050s seem a little thin/hollow to me on most things these days.

I don't think a 441 would serve you well. I've used them on backups here and there, but as others have said, I use them mostly for instruments - bottom snare and guitar cabs.

Of mics I have, I would reach first for my Lawson L47, probably, as it just seems to work on anything I throw at it. After that, a 414B ULS might do the job or a Soundelux U195 (I would use fat switch on, lo cut) - both are great workhorses that can work on many things and would cost a lot less than the Lawson - there was a used Lawson on Reverb for $1500 the other day.

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Re: What mics for female rock vocalist (alto)? Plus a couple vocal recording questions

Post by Nick Sevilla » Thu Jul 08, 2021 7:55 pm

Hi,

My suggestions:

1. Try every mic you have on her lead vocal. Especially if you have never recorded her before. I usually try out 5-7 mics, and have the singer try each one for a verse and a chorus. Full tilt though. If I am going to use my LA2a compressor, then I set up my console with the 5-7 mics going to 5-7 channels channel and the LA2a insert. I set the mic gain so I get a very similar level from each mic, and have a plug in send inside the DAW for verb / delay etc.

It becomes pretty obvious to both of you which is "the one" once you have gone through all the mics (do not skip any).

2. Always use a DIFFERENT mic if she will do backing vocals. The "lead" vocal mic is just for that sound.

3. Never pre de ess anything. You have plug ins for that, use them afterwards if needed. I have had the misfortune of having people think they are still using tape and they do really dumb shit like not singing full words, de essing on the way in, etc only to discover in the mix session that they do not have enough to make the vocals INTELLIGIBLE.

Remember, you can always edit this stuff out or de ess AFTER the recording session.
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Re: What mics for female rock vocalist (alto)? Plus a couple vocal recording questions

Post by JES » Sat Jul 10, 2021 7:20 am

Thanks Nick. This is great advice, and much appreciated.

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Re: What mics for female rock vocalist (alto)? Plus a couple vocal recording questions

Post by vernier » Sun Jul 11, 2021 6:37 pm

She'll sound mostly the same regardless of mic, and other gear in the chain will effect things. That said, any of the classics you mentioned will work, although I didn't see a U67. Anyway, for a modern mic, check out this Blue Microphone Kiwi

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sjock9oGap8

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Re: What mics for female rock vocalist (alto)? Plus a couple vocal recording questions

Post by Recycled_Brains » Mon Jul 12, 2021 9:58 am

SM7 is always a good choice, on any singer. Lately though, I've been using my 441 more often. The top end sounds softer and more natural to me and the mids are thick but nice and clear. It handles dramatic shifts in dynamics exceptionally.

I'm not sure if my SM7 is in need of service or something, but it sounds a lot brighter and more sibilant to me than it used to.
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