mono plate reverb

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joninc
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mono plate reverb

Post by joninc » Mon Jul 19, 2021 8:32 pm

I've been listening to the very amazing country music podcast "cocaine and rhinestones" season 2 and there's been a lot of George Jones played on the first few episodes and I'm struck with the thought that a lot of these older albums from the 50s and 60s were probably mono plate reverbs panned down the center on the lead vocals - when do you think people started using stereo plate reverbs?

I've been using various plate reverb plugins and almost always as stereo but I just notice that the reverb is a lot more audible in the center where it's less obscured by the instrumentation that often is panned around the sides of the mix... I am gonna play with mono reverbs more as I like the way it makes the plate more distinctive in the mix.
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Re: mono plate reverb

Post by drumsound » Tue Jul 20, 2021 8:22 am

Elliot Scheiner likes mono reverb panned with the source, so a vocal in the center has mono reverb center etc.

As for stereo plates, I'm not sure. The first EMTs were made in the late 50s, and had tube electronics. I assume the stereo version came in the 60s?

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Re: mono plate reverb

Post by A.David.MacKinnon » Tue Jul 20, 2021 10:31 am

Regardless of when stereo units came along, if you had two mono units you could run them is stereo. That's what we did in my old commercial space with my partner's EMTs.

That said, it's hard to imagine that happening on country or rock and roll sessions before stereo was fully implemented as the standard. Those records were very often done quick and cheap.

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Re: mono plate reverb

Post by Recycled_Brains » Tue Jul 20, 2021 11:20 am

drumsound wrote:
Tue Jul 20, 2021 8:22 am
Elliot Scheiner likes mono reverb panned with the source, so a vocal in the center has mono reverb center etc.
I used to do that with guitars. I always thought it had a cool widening effect. Not sure why I stopped. Thanks for reminding me. ha.

Mono vocal reverb usually sounds best to me. In the context of super heavy, dense, loud guitars it can be helpful to carve out a little area for the vocal to hang in the center. I'm kind of terrible at reverb though, so I don't always do it.

Lately I've been experimenting with putting the UAD EMT140 or Little Plate at the end of my master buss chain, decay wide open, good amount of pre-delay, just a tiny bit blended in. In lieu of having a dedicated reverb buss with individual aux sends on each channel. I think I like it a lot.
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Re: mono plate reverb

Post by drumsound » Tue Jul 20, 2021 1:47 pm

Recycled_Brains wrote:
Tue Jul 20, 2021 11:20 am
drumsound wrote:
Tue Jul 20, 2021 8:22 am
Elliot Scheiner likes mono reverb panned with the source, so a vocal in the center has mono reverb center etc.
I used to do that with guitars. I always thought it had a cool widening effect. Not sure why I stopped. Thanks for reminding me. ha.

Mono vocal reverb usually sounds best to me. In the context of super heavy, dense, loud guitars it can be helpful to carve out a little area for the vocal to hang in the center. I'm kind of terrible at reverb though, so I don't always do it.

Lately I've been experimenting with putting the UAD EMT140 or Little Plate at the end of my master buss chain, decay wide open, good amount of pre-delay, just a tiny bit blended in. In lieu of having a dedicated reverb buss with individual aux sends on each channel. I think I like it a lot.
I think MOST people are "kind of terrible at reverb." I use as little of it as I can get away with. I've done whole records without reverb.

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Re: mono plate reverb

Post by A.David.MacKinnon » Tue Jul 20, 2021 4:16 pm

My move for a very long time was to turn it up until I could just hear it and then pull the fader back down a hair. These days I generally dial it in to where I like it and then listen back a day later. It's either just right or so loud that I wonder what I was thinking.

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Re: mono plate reverb

Post by drumsound » Wed Jul 21, 2021 11:09 am

A.David.MacKinnon wrote:
Tue Jul 20, 2021 4:16 pm
My move for a very long time was to turn it up until I could just hear it and then pull the fader back down a hair. These days I generally dial it in to where I like it and then listen back a day later. It's either just right or so loud that I wonder what I was thinking.
I always like the "hear it and then turn it down" method. I also like to think "where's the reverb" but then mute it and the mix changes more than expected. When that happens, I know the reverb hasn't taken over, but is integral.

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Re: mono plate reverb

Post by A.David.MacKinnon » Wed Jul 21, 2021 11:15 am

drumsound wrote:
Wed Jul 21, 2021 11:09 am
A.David.MacKinnon wrote:
Tue Jul 20, 2021 4:16 pm
My move for a very long time was to turn it up until I could just hear it and then pull the fader back down a hair. These days I generally dial it in to where I like it and then listen back a day later. It's either just right or so loud that I wonder what I was thinking.
I always like the "hear it and then turn it down" method. I also like to think "where's the reverb" but then mute it and the mix changes more than expected. When that happens, I know the reverb hasn't taken over, but is integral.
A bit of time away really helps. If you spend a while dialing in the right reverb and pre-delay and really going deep getting it just so you actually stop hearing it. Or you get so used to it you don't notice that it's way too loud and out of context. A day away is huge but even a dinner break or a walk can reset your brain and let you actually hear the damn thing properly.

Anyway, back on topic, I find choosing between mono or stereo reverbs depends a lot on what else is happening in the mix. Sometimes mono is great because the mix is busy and you need the reverb to have it's own place. On arrangements that are more sparse there's room for a big, wide reverb. It's worth noting that those George Jones records and lots of other classic country and pop have the vocals way, way up front which can also make a real difference.
Starting with the vocal and verb in place while you balance the rest of the mix can help insure there's space for it. I mixed an pair of ambient records last year that had the most giant, insane cathedral reverb. The vocalist was singing melodies but no words and giant reverb was her request. If you know the vocal needs tons and tons of verb then it easier to start with that up and build around it than to build a mix and try to make the reverb fit.

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Re: mono plate reverb

Post by vernier » Wed Jul 21, 2021 3:09 pm

Plates came on the scene 1950's.

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Re: mono plate reverb

Post by Recycled_Brains » Thu Jul 22, 2021 10:51 am

drumsound wrote:
Wed Jul 21, 2021 11:09 am
A.David.MacKinnon wrote:
Tue Jul 20, 2021 4:16 pm
My move for a very long time was to turn it up until I could just hear it and then pull the fader back down a hair. These days I generally dial it in to where I like it and then listen back a day later. It's either just right or so loud that I wonder what I was thinking.
I always like the "hear it and then turn it down" method. I also like to think "where's the reverb" but then mute it and the mix changes more than expected. When that happens, I know the reverb hasn't taken over, but is integral.
Enough to miss it when it's gone is a great way to go, I think.

What I often find too, is that as the mix gets closer to the end, the reverb can sound a little more prominent and still good because in general, everything sounds a lot tighter.
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Re: mono plate reverb

Post by Nick Sevilla » Fri Jul 23, 2021 2:30 am

drumsound wrote:
Tue Jul 20, 2021 1:47 pm
I think MOST people are "kind of terrible at reverb." I use as little of it as I can get away with. I've done whole records without reverb.
Agreed.

I tend to mix 100% DRY,. until at least 80% of the way there. then I start to add ambience to meld stuff together. Especially if needed.
A lot of self recorded stuff these days has a ton of natural ambience, because of the musicians being amateurs with the mic positioning...
Howling at the neighbors. Hoping they have more mic cables.

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Re: mono plate reverb

Post by Nick Sevilla » Fri Jul 23, 2021 2:39 am

"Cinerama
Motion picture theatres, however, are where the real introduction of stereophonic sound to the public occurred. Amid great fanfare, stereo sound was officially proven commercially viable for the public on September 30, 1952 with the release of a Cinerama demonstration film by Lowell Thomas and Mike Todd titled This is Cinerama. The format was a spectacular widescreen process featuring three separate 35mm motion picture films (plus a separate sound film) running in synchronization with one another at 26 fps, adding one picture panel each to the viewer's left and right at 45-degree angles, in addition to the usual front and center panel, creating a truly immersive panoramic visual experience, comparable in some ways to today's curved screen IMAX OMNI. "

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stereophonic_sound

"In November 1957, the small Audio Fidelity Records label released the first mass-produced stereophonic disc"

I would assume that anything before 1957, muscially, was Mono. After 1957 most everything was still in Mono, but there were some Stereo being put out., The Beatles for example, were first all released in Mono, then Stereo. That was the mid 1960s.

If you are doing "period correct" music, go with that as a timeline. Study England and the USA as far as what they were releasing at that time.

For example ROCKABILLY, R&B, et al,from the early 1960s and before. Not much was Stereo in the studios.
Howling at the neighbors. Hoping they have more mic cables.

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Re: mono plate reverb

Post by Mark » Sat Aug 19, 2023 11:02 am

WWRHS?

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Re: mono plate reverb

Post by drumsound » Sun Aug 20, 2023 10:18 am

Mark wrote:
Sat Aug 19, 2023 11:02 am
*AHEM*

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Ki ... ent_394325
Yes, Alan Blumlein was brilliant and had that stuff dialed in WAAAAAY before people knew what was up. I think most of us here are talking about practical integration though.

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Re: mono plate reverb

Post by I'm Painting Again » Sat Oct 07, 2023 6:30 am

don't really have anything to add to the discussion apart from the thought I just had of a Dolby Atomos mix with 9 tube EMT plates would be super fun

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