Re getting guitar sounds
Re getting guitar sounds
Below was posted at my private forum to answers questions about using Orange amps and pedal. I post here to start a conversation, but do not mind being ridiculed if you think my approach naff.
My approach:
Pedals are a option where you pre-set for the sound, and then hit the switch.
Guitars is, you gotta tweak in real time.
Re the Tiny Terror, I usually use the 7 watt setting, because I can start with the volume 100%.
On the 15 watt setting, I put all knobs on 11 first, then set the amount of gain distortion while adjusting the master to keep the volume level where I want it. I kinda adjust the tone last.
7 vs. 15 watts is different, with the latter being heftier, and niticeable louder – drives the speaker different, also. I have, BTW, a Jet City 1×10″ onnit.
Re Orange pedals in particular, I’m sure the Stamp is like you say, to impart a Orange sound to other amps, or power amps, mebbe DI.
The Two-Stroke is ingenious and if I had found it sooner I might have built my board onnit, despite its size. It is first a clean boost – if I recall, like 20 dB – definitely audible and can do good things to the amp re hitting its pre harder. That’s with the E flat.
But the EQ is the point of it, really, and its’ strong.
There’s a sweepable hi, and a sweepable low. Not only is the center-point frequency selectable, but also the Q. And it gives add or cut volume to that part the EQ designates – the cut is as beautiful as the frequency boost. It’s easy to make a h-bucker sound Strat, by setting a wide Q and using the low adjustment to turn down at, say, 60Hz., you can make a high-pass filter. Or do the opposite on the right-side knobs and make a LPF.
But while it can “sound Orange”, it certainly doesn’t have to.
I’ll write about the Fur Coat when I geddit, likely next week as our PO is unpredictable and I think that’s how it was sent.
My approach:
Pedals are a option where you pre-set for the sound, and then hit the switch.
Guitars is, you gotta tweak in real time.
Re the Tiny Terror, I usually use the 7 watt setting, because I can start with the volume 100%.
On the 15 watt setting, I put all knobs on 11 first, then set the amount of gain distortion while adjusting the master to keep the volume level where I want it. I kinda adjust the tone last.
7 vs. 15 watts is different, with the latter being heftier, and niticeable louder – drives the speaker different, also. I have, BTW, a Jet City 1×10″ onnit.
Re Orange pedals in particular, I’m sure the Stamp is like you say, to impart a Orange sound to other amps, or power amps, mebbe DI.
The Two-Stroke is ingenious and if I had found it sooner I might have built my board onnit, despite its size. It is first a clean boost – if I recall, like 20 dB – definitely audible and can do good things to the amp re hitting its pre harder. That’s with the E flat.
But the EQ is the point of it, really, and its’ strong.
There’s a sweepable hi, and a sweepable low. Not only is the center-point frequency selectable, but also the Q. And it gives add or cut volume to that part the EQ designates – the cut is as beautiful as the frequency boost. It’s easy to make a h-bucker sound Strat, by setting a wide Q and using the low adjustment to turn down at, say, 60Hz., you can make a high-pass filter. Or do the opposite on the right-side knobs and make a LPF.
But while it can “sound Orange”, it certainly doesn’t have to.
I’ll write about the Fur Coat when I geddit, likely next week as our PO is unpredictable and I think that’s how it was sent.
- digitaldrummer
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Re: Re getting guitar sounds
Many times I just have an amp on the floor, ribbon mic in front of it. guitar player plugs in and says "hmm.. ok... that sounds pretty good". I'm like, "are you sure"? other times we do a little tweaking of the settings (a lot of times I find they want too much distortion and once recorded there is no clarity), or we swap out some pedals, or mics, or the guitar. it's funny because usually I would expect the player to want to sit there and mess with all of the knobs on everything for hours, but so many times that never happens - even if they are using my amps and pedals.
Re: Re getting guitar sounds
Yes, my experience, also.
Guys come over, plug in and use it how I have it set up.
Me, too, sometimes; never sounds bad altho' I might could sometimes get it better.
The above essay was in the context of a guy just getting a Micro Terror and asking how to set it up, and then asking about the Orange pedals.
I collect pedals, have a ton, but sometimes just go straight-wire to the amp.
I put a nicer speaker in my little 10w. Electar and now about a year later I think the thing sounds great (speaker broke in, also changed tubes).
But, a Fulldrive 3 or Timmy in front and it sounds even, eh, greater.
Other times with modulation, etc., it's like, the cake benefits from the frosting.
And of course, Orange "cake" tastes different than Fender "cake" to start with ...
Different guitar, amp, pedal flava's is inspiring - or ought to be.
Guys come over, plug in and use it how I have it set up.
Me, too, sometimes; never sounds bad altho' I might could sometimes get it better.
The above essay was in the context of a guy just getting a Micro Terror and asking how to set it up, and then asking about the Orange pedals.
I collect pedals, have a ton, but sometimes just go straight-wire to the amp.
I put a nicer speaker in my little 10w. Electar and now about a year later I think the thing sounds great (speaker broke in, also changed tubes).
But, a Fulldrive 3 or Timmy in front and it sounds even, eh, greater.
Other times with modulation, etc., it's like, the cake benefits from the frosting.
And of course, Orange "cake" tastes different than Fender "cake" to start with ...
Different guitar, amp, pedal flava's is inspiring - or ought to be.
- digitaldrummer
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Re: Re getting guitar sounds
speaking of Fender cake... my Blues Junior is making weird sounds again. Just every so often, little squeaks and squelches. I'm guessing I need to replace a tube... or a couple ... again. but I suppose it could be a cap going bad. also if I tap any of the tubes (with a plastic pen) it makes little fart noises. it's good enough for rehearsals, but I've been avoiding letting anyone try to record with it lately.
Re: Re getting guitar sounds
Yeah, sounds like a tube.
If yer lucky, pulling it out and then re-seating the tube in the socket might help - switch 'em around if you can, also.
When you have the tubes out, run an emery board on the tines. If you know what yer doing, you might wanna tighten the sockets if necessary.
I have a 12AU7 in my ProJr starts a low-level feed back-like squeal if the amp is on and un-played for about 10 minutes. I switch it on and off, and it's fine until the next such 10 minutes. I should change it, but I'm otherwise loving the sound ...
If yer lucky, pulling it out and then re-seating the tube in the socket might help - switch 'em around if you can, also.
When you have the tubes out, run an emery board on the tines. If you know what yer doing, you might wanna tighten the sockets if necessary.
I have a 12AU7 in my ProJr starts a low-level feed back-like squeal if the amp is on and un-played for about 10 minutes. I switch it on and off, and it's fine until the next such 10 minutes. I should change it, but I'm otherwise loving the sound ...
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Re: Re getting guitar sounds
I've found a small tub full of guitar picks of all shapes and sizes with a wide selection of extra-thin, thin, medium, medium heavy, heavy and extra heavy comes in handy time and time again. Get something with a snap on lid - food storage works well. Keep the lid snapped on, it prevents disaster time and again.
There are many tones in that little tub, play an acoustic guitar with an extra thin and then an extra heavy pick and you will instantly see what I mean.
The tiny picks sound different than the huge triangular ones. Nylon sounds different than hard plastic.
There are many tones in that little tub, play an acoustic guitar with an extra thin and then an extra heavy pick and you will instantly see what I mean.
The tiny picks sound different than the huge triangular ones. Nylon sounds different than hard plastic.
Re: Re getting guitar sounds
Oooh, yeah!
I like quarters and half dollars, as well as made-for-it copper picks, altho' all break strings faster.
I tend toward .73mm nylon, as they sound a lot like fingers on bass - I play with the shoulder which, among other things, makes Rev. Billy G. harmonics easier.
But I have a marble pick that's fun, felt picks ...
And don't forgot - pickless. I did a EP a few years back where I played all the guitars without a pick, started getting pretty comfortable at it and do it once in a while now; works for Jeff Beck and Knopfler and that crazy-good Reverb demo guy.
I like quarters and half dollars, as well as made-for-it copper picks, altho' all break strings faster.
I tend toward .73mm nylon, as they sound a lot like fingers on bass - I play with the shoulder which, among other things, makes Rev. Billy G. harmonics easier.
But I have a marble pick that's fun, felt picks ...
And don't forgot - pickless. I did a EP a few years back where I played all the guitars without a pick, started getting pretty comfortable at it and do it once in a while now; works for Jeff Beck and Knopfler and that crazy-good Reverb demo guy.
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Re: Re getting guitar sounds
Yep, I've got a large stone pick in the tub somewhere too, it's sort of a "movable fret unless you go with the neck pickup and play in the area in between the neck pickup and the bridge.
Live I use a 2mm Gator pick, a heavy pick gives me more range of dynamics, from very soft to really loud.I pop harmonics with the meat of my thumb following the pick stroke.
I do thumb and fingers as well, a different sound and a different way to play. What you do with your picking hand is where the rubber meets the road.
Live I use a 2mm Gator pick, a heavy pick gives me more range of dynamics, from very soft to really loud.I pop harmonics with the meat of my thumb following the pick stroke.
I do thumb and fingers as well, a different sound and a different way to play. What you do with your picking hand is where the rubber meets the road.
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Re: Re getting guitar sounds
Something I learned from my old boss was to have the player play the song we're about to record. He would listen and then adjust one knob, and listen again. Then he might make a tweak on a different knob, and then listen. Even if he thought in his head "it's too bright, needs more gain, and less reverb" he wouldn't do all those things and then listen. He'd listen to the effect of each thing on its own. I need to remind myself to do that. He's a guitar player who plays the amp as much as he plays the instrument, if you know what I mean.
Re: Re getting guitar sounds
This is what I say when trying to explain tube guitar amps to non-believers. And it doesn't only apply to tube amps, or even amps (think, compressors, etc.) but they are perhaps the clearest example, and that "playability" of the tube amps is one of the reasons I favor 'em.
Re adjusting one parameter atta time, nope, not me - far too impatient and improvisational, me, unless it's requested I be otherwise.
- Recycled_Brains
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Re: Re getting guitar sounds
I've historically done the same thing, though I started to develop an instinct and the ability to see a few moves ahead. Maybe because I am a guitar player. Understanding the amp is super important. Take a Marshall JMP for instance. People equate "bright" with treble, so if it's too bright the obvious move would be to lower that control, but in my experience if you boost the bass and/or the mids instead and push the cab harder you get the desired effect except now the signal has more balls.drumsound wrote: ↑Wed Nov 10, 2021 10:12 amSomething I learned from my old boss was to have the player play the song we're about to record. He would listen and then adjust one knob, and listen again. Then he might make a tweak on a different knob, and then listen. Even if he thought in his head "it's too bright, needs more gain, and less reverb" he wouldn't do all those things and then listen. He'd listen to the effect of each thing on its own. I need to remind myself to do that. He's a guitar player who plays the amp as much as he plays the instrument, if you know what I mean.
I use pedals to shape tone a ton. I have a boost that has a depth control that is a 100hz low shelf and a filter that is like the filter on a Rat, plus a separate boost control that pushes the midrange. I will EQ the signal with that thing before I touch an EQ in my rack. I treat virtually any overdrive that way because typically 80-90% of the gain is coming from the amp so the pedal is just taking care of that last 10-20% and is focused primarily on shaping the tone, not blowing the amp out (with the obvious exception). Know your pedals and have lots of them in the studio for people to try. I talk to my friends that play and they're always like "why do I have 5 overdrive/fuzz pedals? I should sell some." I talk them out of it, because sure, live? who needs all that shit? But in the studio the pedal you never use could be your savior.
Also, the live sound that players use is almost never 100% what ends up being recorded. It's super fuckin rare, so it's important for people to not be too precious about it.
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Re: Re getting guitar sounds
That's all completely logical. He'd usually do the one knob thing when someone else was playing the guitar. He was smart, it was always based on how that player was playing.Recycled_Brains wrote: ↑Thu Nov 11, 2021 8:06 amI've historically done the same thing, though I started to develop an instinct and the ability to see a few moves ahead. Maybe because I am a guitar player. Understanding the amp is super important. Take a Marshall JMP for instance. People equate "bright" with treble, so if it's too bright the obvious move would be to lower that control, but in my experience if you boost the bass and/or the mids instead and push the cab harder you get the desired effect except now the signal has more balls.drumsound wrote: ↑Wed Nov 10, 2021 10:12 amSomething I learned from my old boss was to have the player play the song we're about to record. He would listen and then adjust one knob, and listen again. Then he might make a tweak on a different knob, and then listen. Even if he thought in his head "it's too bright, needs more gain, and less reverb" he wouldn't do all those things and then listen. He'd listen to the effect of each thing on its own. I need to remind myself to do that. He's a guitar player who plays the amp as much as he plays the instrument, if you know what I mean.
I use pedals to shape tone a ton. I have a boost that has a depth control that is a 100hz low shelf and a filter that is like the filter on a Rat, plus a separate boost control that pushes the midrange. I will EQ the signal with that thing before I touch an EQ in my rack. I treat virtually any overdrive that way because typically 80-90% of the gain is coming from the amp so the pedal is just taking care of that last 10-20% and is focused primarily on shaping the tone, not blowing the amp out (with the obvious exception). Know your pedals and have lots of them in the studio for people to try. I talk to my friends that play and they're always like "why do I have 5 overdrive/fuzz pedals? I should sell some." I talk them out of it, because sure, live? who needs all that shit? But in the studio the pedal you never use could be your savior.
Also, the live sound that players use is almost never 100% what ends up being recorded. It's super fuckin rare, so it's important for people to not be too precious about it.
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Re: Re getting guitar sounds
Yeah, I own 3 overdrive pedals, two fuzzes and 3 guitars with different types of pickups. In an utterly straight forward rock song with only two rhythm guitars any combination might provide the palette that compliments the song.
Then there's amps!
I remember Albini once suggesting that switching guitars has more impact than switching amps. Not sure I agree, but it's interesting.
Then there's amps!
I remember Albini once suggesting that switching guitars has more impact than switching amps. Not sure I agree, but it's interesting.
Re: Re getting guitar sounds
I can sorta agree with that. A different guitar will usually make me play more different than changing amps, and particularly if I am adjusting the amp to my preference.losthighway wrote: ↑Fri Nov 12, 2021 5:43 amI remember Albini once suggesting that switching guitars has more impact than switching amps. Not sure I agree, but it's interesting.
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