Live recording acoustic group

[standup]

Starting to think about a recording later this month.

To track a small group live in the same room, would you rather use super card/HyperCard mics close, or figure 8s and try to get the nulls to work out? I’m just starting to think about strategy.

Drummer is in the room, but plays quietly, might be mallets or brushes
Ukulele/vocal
Acoustic guitar/vocal
Electric guitar/vocal (amp in another room)

We might just do the lead vocal as a scratch and overdub vocals later.

Bass will be an overdub.

Any thoughts/suggestions welcome.

[digitaldrummer]

in my experience, the drums are the most difficult to isolate from the other mics in this kind of setup. this may or may not be a problem depending on the room, where everyone is situated, and how "live" the room is.
I would probably put super/hyper mics on each instrument, and whatever you do for the drums (gobos would probably be helpful) and then maybe a couple room mics... If you have a few Shure SM-7B's they are pretty good at reducing the bleed on vocals, but it probably won't be perfect. any condenser would likely pickup a lot of bleed. maybe a ribbon with the null pointed toward the drums? but again will depend on reflections off walls, etc. too.

[emrr]

The acoustic/uke/vcls I'd go for 4 figure 8's first if I could.

So much depends on the room and volume. Sometimes omni's win.

[standup]

The room is pretty dead, and the drummer is quiet as drummers go.

7’ ceiling, joists packed with rock wool, so not much coming off the ceiling. 4” and 6” 703 absorber panels on the walls, GIK diffusers behind drum kit.

Guess I’ll have to try some stuff. And even Omni super-close, I’ll try it. I was thinking Oktava 012 for uke, I have a hypercardioid capsule, but the Omni is the best sounding of them all. I’ll put the uke farthest from the drums.

This was recorded in the same room. All live except bass. Acoustic guitar, drums, vocal on SM7B. Lap steel amp 5’ from drum kit. I don’t remember what mic was on the guitar, I should look in the project file for notes.

https://ericagner.bandcamp.com/track/one-mississippi

[A.David.MacKinnon]

I did a similar thing a few years ago for my own band. We were a 4 piece, live off the floor. Two acoustic guitars or sometimes one acoustic and a piano, drums, double bass and a live vocal. The room was 12 x 24ish with a high peaked ceiling. There is a fair amount of treatment but it's my no means dead.
The guitars were mic'd with an AKG D224 on one and a D19 on the other. The vocal was an RE20.
I used a bunch of gobo. For each of the guitars I had a gobo in front and another behind. The behind bit is really important. You may end up with more stuff bouncing off the back wall into the mics then coming in directly.
You're not going to perfectly isolate everything but that shouldn't be the idea in this kind of set-up. As long as the bleed sounds good and the band sounds good in the room you're golden.

There are some set-up pictures of the guitar/piano are here - http://adavidmackinnon.blogspot.com/202 ... kshop.html

[drumsound]

Without a bunch of gobos, there are a few things I would consider.

Musicians set up as aa a slight A shape with the drums at the point. The other players on figure 8 mics, with the null in line of the A shape, so the drums are as much in the null as possible. That also makes sounds from the drums off-axis to the backside of the figure 8 mics.

-OR-

If there's enough width, it might be worth trying everyone in a straight line with gobos on either side of the drums. In that type of setting, I might put the uke as close to the drums (and gobo) as possible if you want to use the omni cap on the Octava. The gobo keeps the drums somewhat out of the mic, and the drums projecting outward, from close to the uke keeps the uke mic from being a distant room mic that might not work in the production.

In this setup, you can also put the guitar amp on the other side of the drums/gobo. Line up the speaker with the front of the BD.

The second option is based on a Glyn Johns setup that actually isolates things quite well.

[Nick Sevilla]

Every single successful live recording I've done in the studio, began with plenty of time to set up and check the microphone placements.

INSIST on getting this time to set up the best mics and their positions, so you can literally press record, and the recording is 99% there.

The more time you spend at the beginning getting the mics to work together, the less time you'll need later on for phase corrections, EQing stuff that did not need it, and other nasty "fix it in the mix" nonsense.

You'll end up saving the band / money person "beacuoup dollar" in time not wasted fixing problems down the road.

Time to set up, basically try to get a full day if you can, and have the band rehearse while you get the sounds. They will probably like the extra rehearsal time, and for those who are "red button allergic", they can get comfortable with the mics being in their faces for so long, they will completely forget about performance anxiety.

Cheers, and have fun!

PS here is an album I mixed a little while ago, pretty much live in a similar room set up as yours, except for vocals and one or two overdubs post basic tracking. It was a compromise (I did not do the basic tracking) because the bleed between instruments was quite wacky. But in the end, it worked out.

https://www.amazon.com/Cousin-Another-P ... 077&sr=8-3

[kslight]

If it were me, my immediate thinking for priorities would be mono drum overhead, kick and snare, keep the uke and acoustic as far away as possible…those would be my biggest concerns, if you could make shift a couple gobos that would help. Close mics on uke and acoustic…try hyper/super/figure 8 but every mic will probably be a drum mic no matter what, so if you’re gonna get bleed, do your best to make them all sound good

[KuruPrionz]

I would want the bass and the drums to play together on the initial recording.
That's how groove is made, the visual connection is huge. Most listeners tune in the vocal/story and the groove and the rest of it is fine as long as it doesn't interfere. Pretty different from how we tend to think of recording the music.

I would try to get the final vocal on the initial recording too, a scratch vocal could bleed into other mics and make over-dubbing difficult.
No harm in overdubbing the backup vocals, that's what I would do.

If you are recording to a DAW you can align tracks that are out of phase to retain bottom end or use a high pass filter on everything but the kick and the bass. I just picked up Eventide Precision Time Align for $29.99, I think it's on sale for a couple more days. That makes it easy but you can do it by hand too.

If the bass can go direct, so much the better. An acoustic bass needs to be mic'ed though.