Windows 11 and Firewire

[digitaldrummer]

Well, I just saw some other disappointing news today and that is that Microsoft has potentially dropped support for Firewire (IEEE 1394) in Windows 11. I have a UAD Apollo (Silver) with firewire. I'm just as happy running Windows 10 for my DAW though, but I know Microsoft will push and push as usual to try to get everyone to upgrade to 11. As long as UAD keep supporting the firewire support (Apollo Silver) on Win10 I'll still be OK, but eventually I may have to look at a new interface (Antelope Orion32 USB would probably at the top of the list) since there are very few PC desktops that have native thunderbolt connectivity. Nothing is easy...

[winky dinglehoffer]

It seems ridiculous to drop Firewire--how hard can it be to port it over to 11? I use an antiquated PC for audio (good enough to suit my needs), & use firewire for interfacing. I don't want to get rid of the old PC or my interface. Hopefully Microsoft will remedy this situation.

[Nick Sevilla]

Apple dropped Firewire support a while back.

Glad my UAD are now going to be Native, and M1 silicon supported. Because I was not looking forwad to dropping 1200 bucks on a new Satellite just to use their plug ins. The only ones I miss right now are their La2a collection, and the Capitol chambers. I hope both are ported over to Native soon.

Cheers.

[analogika]

Apple dropped Firewire support a while back.

They absolutely did not! Firewire still works fine on Monterey on Apple Silicon (with Thunderbolt 3 —> Thunderbolt 2 adapter into a Thunderbolt 2 —> Firewire adapter).

UAD (!) (and other companies) dropped the ball on Firewire support.

[digitaldrummer]

also, "not supported" and "does not work" can be 2 different scenarios. it's very possible that firewire will work on Win11 using legacy Win10 drivers, but I have not tried this myself (and don't intend to right now). The problem with that is if I did get it working, and then had a problem with an app (like a DAW) is that there is nowhere to turn because it is "not supported".

[Nick Sevilla]

Apple dropped Firewire support a while back.

They absolutely did not! Firewire still works fine on Monterey on Apple Silicon (with Thunderbolt 3 —> Thunderbolt 2 adapter into a Thunderbolt 2 —> Firewire adapter).

UAD (!) (and other companies) dropped the ball on Firewire support.

Thanks for the clarification. At least UAD now is giving us the plugins we had on their CPU boxes, as Native versions for free. I did not look forward to plunking down another grand or more just to access Capitol Chambers plus their La2a emulations.

[analogika]

Apple dropped Firewire support a while back.

They absolutely did not! Firewire still works fine on Monterey on Apple Silicon (with Thunderbolt 3 —> Thunderbolt 2 adapter into a Thunderbolt 2 —> Firewire adapter).

UAD (!) (and other companies) dropped the ball on Firewire support.

Thanks for the clarification. At least UAD now is giving us the plugins we had on their CPU boxes, as Native versions for free. I did not look forward to plunking down another grand or more just to access Capitol Chambers plus their La2a emulations.

The move to subscription services feels like the Covid-induced supply chain issues are hurting them HARD.

[Scodiddly]

Thanks for the clarification. At least UAD now is giving us the plugins we had on their CPU boxes, as Native versions for free. I did not look forward to plunking down another grand or more just to access Capitol Chambers plus their La2a emulations.

The move to subscription services feels like the Covid-induced supply chain issues are hurting them HARD.

Possibly, though I would guess there's also the inevitable "need to find more customers" thing too. Eventually you run out of professionals, and you have to start selling cheap to amateurs. Even if you are just making money off product you wrote years ago, you still need to keep up on OS changes.

[Nick Sevilla]

The move to subscription services feels like the Covid-induced supply chain issues are hurting them HARD.

Possibly, though I would guess there's also the inevitable "need to find more customers" thing too. Eventually you run out of professionals, and you have to start selling cheap to amateurs. Even if you are just making money off product you wrote years ago, you still need to keep up on OS changes.

I remember two things, that certify the whole "never say never" saying:

1. Capitol Records told me back in 2008, that they would ABSOLUTELY NEVER ALLOW ANYONE TO SAMPLE OR IR THEIR CHAMBERS. - That proved false.

2. UAD stated to me that they would ABSOLUTELY NEVER EVER GO TO NATIVE CPU." - LOL another one bites the dust.



So far, they have deposited 5 licenses in my iLok account, out of which only 4 plugins show up on their "UA Connect" online service app, out of a 25 total plugins that I own.

I will likely buy another Octo Thunderfart box from them, especially if they are going to drag their feet with implementing al the plugins that I do own. But, once that Thunderfart box becomes obsolete, I won't buy anything more from them. I have been using Waves and Plugin In Alliances plugins since my FW800 UAD box no longer worked. I will wait though, before throwing any more money their way.

[Pullmaney]

I hear you. It's frustrating when OS updates disrupt your setup. Windows 11's compatibility can be tricky, especially for older tech like Firewire. But yeah, if UAD continues to support it on Win10, you're good for now. It might be worth exploring other interface options. And read the guide here about updating Windows, just in case. Tech transitions are never a walk in the park!

[frans_13]

I don't want to be forced by a company to update or abandon gear that's perfectly good. I have an office machine that's more or less current (=around 5 years old), a few recording machines that are more than 20 years old but run 100% stable, aren't connected to the net and do their job fine*. A mixing machine that's also not connected to the net and does also not get updated - only if the progress is so much it makes a worthwhile difference, that's not happening in less than ten years. I keep old (outdated) mixing computers if i have to open a very old mix from the backups.

The more "current" you are, the more time and money you sink in the computer manufacturers game, not your game. Computer 'progress' has been a bit underwhelming in the last 10 years anyway.

*firewire and PCI i/o, full 64x64 channels without blinking

[digitaldrummer]

Computer 'progress' has been a bit underwhelming in the last 10 years anyway.

I think CPUs have gotten noticeably more powerful. Recording 16 or 32 or 64 tracks has not really been limited by the CPU in the last 20 years (fast drives and more I/O have helped this more). But try to fire up some of the modern, modeled plugins, and you will grind that puppy to a halt real fast. Intel, AMD, ARM M1 & M2 - all really fast today (if you buy the right model) and we've even see UAD releasing Native plugins. And while they will never admit they are phasing out use of DSP, they might eventually port them to something beside SHARC... or maybe they will abandon it altogether once the UAD-2 stuff is all 5-10 years old - nobody really supports hardware after that long. There are still some latency advantages they gain using DSP, but they could use any dedicated CPU to get that.
I'm not even a CPU freak. I have an 11th gen Intel i5. sure, I might run out of native CPU power sometimes, but I will either switch to UAD DSP, or I'll just freeze or commit a track or two and move on. but it's not just CPU speed, DRAM memory speed has steadily increased too and that makes a significant difference too.