Let's talk about layering vocal harmonies

[digitaldrummer]

so obviously the best case is that you get a great vocalist and layer a bunch of great harmonies, you mix it, and it's magic. but let's talk about when they can't do that, or they left the studio (and might not be coming back for a while or ever). Then you either have to get someone else (again probably the best scenario) or there is no budget so you have to make up some harmonies. This last scenario is what I want to talk about.

I've actually had some luck doing this with Melodyne. I'm still learning to be more proficient with this (I've got the tuning part down pretty well). I have the "assistant" version so I may be limited in what I can do with it.

And I've used Soundtoys Little Alter Boy quite a bit. It can sound pretty decent on some vocals, as long as it is layered with a vocal you did not pitch shift. The challenge here is that you set it for 5 semitones and that's not always the note you want since it does not understand scales, just semitone offset - like some of the pitch-shift/harmonizer guitar pedals. So I've messed around with using the automation in Pro Tools (to adjust the pitch) and also using a MIDI track to control this (in this case MIDI is not assigning the actual not, but instead just controlling the semitone offset - a sort of hidden feature in this plugin). both work, but I haven't decided really which is best. probably an even split really. but it can be a lot of tedious work depending on the key/scale. btw, I also like Little Alter Boy to just thicken up a vocal - you can leave the pitch shift at 0 and adjust the formant up or down and add some drive - and that can really be cool on some tracks. It's "drive" can be pretty dirty too - and yes there is a "mix" knob.

I've got Autotune, but to be honest I haven't spent a lot of time with it yet. I can slap it on a track if I know the key and it usually works fairly transparently. or I can use it to fuck up a track and make someone sound like Cher (but only as a joke because, really who wants that?). Not sure if I could use it to make harmonies or not? I've seen Antares makes a "Harmony Engine" plugin, which I thought about demo'ing but haven't had time to try it yet. Demos sounded OK, but they always do when you are selling a product... and it's kinda expensive ($250)

and sometimes I'm not really even "creating harmonies" but doing this to create a second or third voice to augment a real harmony voice.

so what do you use for this kinda stuff? what kind of tricks/techniques you want to share?

[losthighway]

If it's supposed to be a rich, mini choir type of oohs and aaahs I'd just as soon do it myself and mix it dark, go easy on consonants etc.

If it's to be a close harmony, up front vibe like Simon and Gfunk you need an A+ ringer or a B+ one who's rehearsed the stuff.

I could see trying your pitch shifted idea, especially if artificial sounding was okay for the project. If I were to go down that rabbit hole I'd transcribe the part and make some choices. If I'm thinking correctly five semitones up is a perfect fourth, unless you mean down then it's a fifth. Either of those intervals could be good depending on the part but I'd probably want a third in there at points, especially if we're getting 3 parts, which means going through and picking where a major or minor interval is correct.

I'd also say that scooting the robot harmonies a few miliseconds early or late and pulling things a couple microtones north or south might (?) make it sound less artificial.

[drumsound]

If it didn't happen in tracing, I'm not putting it in without some sort of talk with the client. If it's a bigger production/budget that will be talked about as to if the artist can do it, or someone in the band, or we're hiring someone.

I might occasionally alter boy something for effect, but I'm not getting into creating harmonies after the tracking/production phase.

[Nick Sevilla]

...or there is no budget so you have to make up some harmonies. This last scenario is what I want to talk about.

1. No money, no funny.

2. No artist pre approval, no funny.

3. Vocals are very hard to process properly without making them sound like a synth.

That stated, well, you have a voice right? Can you sing the parts somewhat easily?

What is your EXACT vocal harmony idea? Not having any idea is far worse than knowing what your goal is, and then making it happen. So work that out first.

[digitaldrummer]

so to be clear, no I would not ever force something like this on a client. And my wording was not 100% clear in my original post (it's not really the no $ scenario, it's more of weighing capability/ability and budget and how does it sound?). I did it the other day to suggest a harmony to client, but for that one he'll likely practice it and then come back and record it. Or maybe not. In some cases the "fake" harmonies sound good or at least better than the client is capable of so a little technological assistance can sometimes do the job. But sounds like maybe that's not what you all do - that's fine. I was just wondering if anyone else was doing this sort of thing occasionally.
btw, I picked up Eventide Quadravox the other day too. It's nice in that it is "intelligent" harmonies (you can feed it the key and tell it you want a major 5th, etc.), but the downside is no formant control so you get into chipmunkville pretty quickly. I will see if following it with Little Alter Boy could bring it back closer to reality. But Melodyne seems to do the most realistic job so far.

[Recycled_Brains]

I just did this recently with Soundtoys Crystallizer.

We were tracking vocals, so the singer was there. He couldn't quite find the interval he was looking for, so I pulled the plugin up to scroll through some different ones. Once we found the harmony he was after he thought it sounded rad (I agreed) so we just went with that. I'm sure if it was mixed too loud it would sound pretty synthetic, but it's convincing in context and the subtle non-linearities sound super cool to us.

I mean, fuck it.... even if it sounds a little unnatural, who cares? Exploit it as an interesting texture.

[losthighway]

^ This also can be instructive (if not a little time consuming) sometimes hearing a harmony as a note choice, as well as a solid pitch can light the way for us non choir types.

[digitaldrummer]

sometimes I'll layer fake oohs and ahhs underneath real ones too (Xpand has some decent samples). it's like handclaps. Fake claps sound fake, but add a couple real claps with them and then it can work great. or sometimes, yeah, the fake, sampled sound is just fine, but more often I try to mix them with real recording if I'm going to use them. of course YMMV.

[Nick Sevilla]

so what do you use for this kinda stuff? what kind of tricks/techniques you want to share?

I like to use vocal samples, or having someone sing, instead of trying to use synths or mangling a real voice too much, especially if the vocal harmony or second layer is going to be prominent. Of course, if you are trying to sound robotic or artificial, anything goes.

There are tons of online places to get real vocal samples, singing all kinds of styles of music, some are really cheap. Just search the net for them.

For second vocals behind the lead vocal, I like to either brighten them up a bit, to make them sound "above" the lead, using a boost around 10K from 4-7 dB, and if I want a lower height, then I darken them up, by removing around the same freq range, but as always, tweak until it sounds right to you.

[vvv]

Just wanna mention evrytime I see the thread title I think of:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ydrtF45-y-g

[vernier]

The three ways I've done it over the years ..either a few people singing their part ..Or, two or more people singing each part together in unison ..Or, one person singing into a vocal harmonizer thingy. Each works for different reasons.

[digitaldrummer]

Waves just launched a new one of these thingies too -- https://www.waves.com/plugins/waves-harmony
I have not tried it. Their constant need to "update" to new versions sometimes makes it difficult to just do a trial without f***ing up the existing plugs.

[Nick Sevilla]

Waves just launched a new one of these thingies too -- https://www.waves.com/plugins/waves-harmony
I have not tried it. Their constant need to "update" to new versions sometimes makes it difficult to just do a trial without f***ing up the existing plugs.

I updated and played with it. It can do interesting things. But be warned, don't put out of tune stuff in there, it causes all sorts of silly stuff to happen LOL.