Recording Vocal Tracks without headphones

[Nick Sevilla]

1. When recording Kenny Loggins, we used two Auratones with a Mono mix, Kenny and I took the time to place the two speakers as exactly as possible, facing each other with the microphone exactly in the center where the null would be. We flipped the polarity on ONE of the Auratones. It worked well enough, but eventually Kenny brought in some headphones which I "modified" to be open back, as he loved the sound of them but hated that they were closed back. For backing vocxals one several songs off his album "Its About Time."

2. A friend recorded the vocals on Aerosmith's "I don't Wanna Miss A Thing" for that blockbuster Armageddon. They recorded Stephen Tyler in teh control room using an SM58 microphone, and the Urei speakers were LOUD like in a concert. They did not flip the phase, Stephen just ripped out a few takes, comped from them, and was done.

Sorry for the name dropping but if they can accept those two methods of recording and make them hits, it can work for anyone. You just have to accept their shortcomings and mix challenges due to the bleed.

Cheers

[digitaldrummer]

there is no doubt that it is possible to record vocals this way (rumor is Bono likes to do this too, but never has in my studio...). and yes, I can work with bleed. The problem is that you also have to get a really solid vocal take because it's really difficult to process a vocal when there is too much bleed (tuning plugins get especially confused). and if there is other bleed (guitars, drums, etc) you can only add so much effects (delay, reverb, etc.) because now it's applied to whatever else is bleeding into that track (sometimes the whole band). But I've done it and I've made it work. In other cases it was best to re-record the vocals so they were clean.

I understand the Fig-8 mic trick too, but I don't think the null in the Fig8 mics I have are any better than the null in a good cardioid or super-cardioid mic. I don't think it will really help me here since there would still be some bleed. in either case it's minimal, but it is still there. Maybe if I was in a much larger studio there might be less early reflections.

I'm aware of the tricks to record another track without the vocal, flip phase, etc. to null out the bleed, but that is so much more work, and more time consuming and frankly not worth it if the client has difficulty getting a good take as it is (I'm trying to be careful in how I say this because you never know who is reading it and I'm trying not to offend... but I do have some that have difficulty!). Unfortunately (for me) the clients that usually are asking for this kind of thing are NOT the level of those you hear about/read about. If they were then I'd probably have no difficulty in making it work with the little bit of bleed that's in there.

anyway, one of the sessions got pushed out but I will try the SM7B to see how that works and report back. Of course have to see if it works on the voice too. But I usually really like it through a UA LA-610. Another option might be a Sennheiser 441. I don't have an M88 (always wanted one but have not pulled the trigger yet).

thanks for all the suggestions so far!

[crow]

In addition to my love for using fig-8 nulls, I have found it helpful to put gobos/absorption in indirect bleed paths. eg. when I use an sm7b for live scratch vocals, I'll have it pointing away from the drums and make sure the area behind the singer is absorptive, to mitigate drum noise (ahem, music) bouncing off the walls into the business end of the mic. perhaps putting a gobo behind the singer help in your situation.

[drumsound]

This would be very hard for me. I seem to adjust monitor levels compulsively without noticing.

I do too, that's why I mentioned it. It's a common thing for me, hear something I'm not sure of, turn it up a tad, or maybe adjust the mix, etc...

I could see putting masking tape over relevant faders/knobs not to physically lock them in place but as a visual and tactile message, "No-no!".

You laugh, but I do things like that all the time. When I'm bouncing back and forth from tracking to mixing a lot I put a piece of tape that says "Bus Comp" to remind me to unpatch or repatch, for instance.

[digitaldrummer]

In addition to my love for using fig-8 nulls, I have found it helpful to put gobos/absorption in indirect bleed paths. eg. when I use an sm7b for live scratch vocals, I'll have it pointing away from the drums and make sure the area behind the singer is absorptive, to mitigate drum noise (ahem, music) bouncing off the walls into the business end of the mic. perhaps putting a gobo behind the singer help in your situation.

yeah, I do something very similar when tracking bands and it definitely helps when doing these vocals, there was actually not any really close walls (the closest being in the null - the singer is facing that wall, and it also has lots of absorption on it. The floor might be the other closest surface.)

[Recycled_Brains]

I've done this with my band quite a few times. Singer hates headphones, and rightfully so.

SM7b, rear pointed at speakers, dead centered. Just make sure the vocal is drowning out all or at least most of the bleed when actually singing and if needed, cut the space out between the vocals. Never regretted doing that. My room at the time was super dead, which likely helped. I think as long as the room isn't a total mess acoustically, you're probably good. The amount of bleed was pretty much negligible.

If it worked on Rage Against the Machine's albums, which was Zach holding an sm58 very close to the monitors, I think overthinking stuff like this is probably pointless.

[vernier]

I did this once but didn't set it up ..the engineer mounted speakers on stands and positioned the height and angle very carefully, making several adjustments to make the whole thing work.

[digitaldrummer]

I used the SM7B and it is a bit better as far as reducing bleed. Of course its a different timbre than the U47 (clone) and may not always work. What I have realized is that the minimal amount of bleed I am getting is much better than what this client did at another studio (I also have tracks I'm mixing but did not record - some are so bad we are going to re-record them).

But I'm still going to try to push for using headphones since that is the least bleed. And I think the biggest reason for not wanting headphones is not having a good headphone mix (everything is too loud, or not loud enough, or the vocal is too loud in the mix, or not loud enough etc.). Or maybe the headphones are not right for that person (I have a bunch of different kinds to try). so I'm hoping spending a little more time to find the right setup can work. And of course pushing for better vocal takes that don't need to be tuned or processed in 99 different ways...

[digitaldrummer]

I also convinced the client to try some semi-open back headphones (AKG K240's) and that seemed to work OK. still way less bleed than no phones and I did not notice any difference in quality of vocal takes vs. the no phones (and so far I think the client is on board with that too, but these things can flip so easily...). my rationale was so they could hear a bit of natural, in-room sound instead of just only the mic/preamp/reverb coming through the phones. sort of like when they want to lift an earpad, except maybe they won't have to now.