Y cable on top+bottom Tom mics
- alexdingley
- buyin' a studio
- Posts: 806
- Joined: Fri Feb 13, 2004 10:00 am
- Location: Greater Philadelphia Area
- Contact:
Y cable on top+bottom Tom mics
I’m looking up info about properly making y-cables for ganging a set of dynamic mics on each Tom.
I know that I’ll want to have the “bottom” half of the y-cables phase-flipped since they’ll be on the bottom drum heads… but I recently heard a podcast interview in which an engineer suggested that it’s most appropriate to make sure you use a 600ohm y-cable.
I’m googling for good info about this, but not sure I’m finding a good explanation of why this is needed & where in the wiring the resistor(s) need to be placed.
Anyone ever use such a wiring setup? Any insights / resources?
I know that I’ll want to have the “bottom” half of the y-cables phase-flipped since they’ll be on the bottom drum heads… but I recently heard a podcast interview in which an engineer suggested that it’s most appropriate to make sure you use a 600ohm y-cable.
I’m googling for good info about this, but not sure I’m finding a good explanation of why this is needed & where in the wiring the resistor(s) need to be placed.
Anyone ever use such a wiring setup? Any insights / resources?
- winky dinglehoffer
- buyin' a studio
- Posts: 813
- Joined: Wed May 07, 2003 12:08 pm
- Location: ATL
Re: Y cable on top+bottom Tom mics
Not a Y cable but same principle. Seems like it ought to work all right:
http://www.regiscoyne.com/tech/combiner/
http://www.regiscoyne.com/tech/combiner/
- Nick Sevilla
- on a wing and a prayer
- Posts: 5571
- Joined: Mon Mar 03, 2008 1:34 pm
- Location: Lake Arrowhead California USA
- Contact:
Re: Y cable on top+bottom Tom mics
Do you have a console with groups?
That is what they are there for.
Y-ing two mics with little to no control over individual levels / phase is just going to make more work for you.
That is what they are there for.
Y-ing two mics with little to no control over individual levels / phase is just going to make more work for you.
Howling at the neighbors. Hoping they have more mic cables.
- alexdingley
- buyin' a studio
- Posts: 806
- Joined: Fri Feb 13, 2004 10:00 am
- Location: Greater Philadelphia Area
- Contact:
Re: Y cable on top+bottom Tom mics
Not anymore. My exploration of this idea came partially out of the fact that I’m gonna be relying predominantly upon a pair of 8ch I/Os and with a prog rock drum kit & vocals, keys, guitars, Tom mics might get combined / also have always been curious about the top/bottom Tom mic stuff.
Very much JUST a curiosity at this moment.
-
- steve albini likes it
- Posts: 317
- Joined: Sat Jul 12, 2003 11:39 am
Re: Y cable on top+bottom Tom mics
Accounting for that you are working with that and talking "Prog..."?alexdingley wrote: ↑Thu Aug 04, 2022 3:33 pmNot anymore. My exploration of this idea came partially out of the fact that I’m gonna be relying predominantly upon a pair of 8ch I/Os and with a prog rock drum kit & vocals, keys, guitars, Tom mics might get combined / also have always been curious about the top/bottom Tom mic stuff.
Very much JUST a curiosity at this moment.
I can't help but think something like this might be the best way to address the issue in your specific set of circumstances.
(and I dislike throwing a notable amount of cash at a problem...)
https://www.radialeng.com/product/mix-21
That said, the Radial unit in question addresses the "Phase..." issue that you will need to deal with while also giving you a way to set the repsective level of the "Tom Top..."/"Tom Bottom..." microphones.
Seems like a fair amount of potential upside that could justify the amount you would have to invest.
-
- moves faders with mind
- Posts: 2746
- Joined: Thu Jul 03, 2003 11:26 pm
- Location: Denver, CO
- Contact:
Re: Y cable on top+bottom Tom mics
Things you learn when doing the top/bottom tom mic thing:
Tuning the drums is critical. If the bottom head isn't in tune with the top, the result is mush. And if the bottom head is the same pitch as the top, it doesn't contribute much...just more of the same. A 3rd, 4th, or 5th away from the top (either direction) can fatten things up.
Bottom tom heads sing along with the rest of kit. They'll resonate along with the kick and snare. Which leads to gates and gaff tape.
My experience is that I usually want to bottom head quieter than the top, so a 1:1 balance via a y-cable might not be ideal. That Radial deal is a well-thought-out solution. Or, in the schematic linked above, bump the bottom head resistors up a bit...470, 560, or 750 maybe.
Tuning the drums is critical. If the bottom head isn't in tune with the top, the result is mush. And if the bottom head is the same pitch as the top, it doesn't contribute much...just more of the same. A 3rd, 4th, or 5th away from the top (either direction) can fatten things up.
Bottom tom heads sing along with the rest of kit. They'll resonate along with the kick and snare. Which leads to gates and gaff tape.
My experience is that I usually want to bottom head quieter than the top, so a 1:1 balance via a y-cable might not be ideal. That Radial deal is a well-thought-out solution. Or, in the schematic linked above, bump the bottom head resistors up a bit...470, 560, or 750 maybe.
"What fer?"
"Cat fur, to make kitten britches."
"Cat fur, to make kitten britches."
Re: Y cable on top+bottom Tom mics
mmmm, I'd consider getting a a little sub-mixer ...
But I do have a little box somewhere (AT?) that is for doing top and bottom snare like that, but found it a PITA, devolved to a bottom (or top) mic and more in the OH's.
But try googling for "mic splitter" or "combiner".
But I do have a little box somewhere (AT?) that is for doing top and bottom snare like that, but found it a PITA, devolved to a bottom (or top) mic and more in the OH's.
But try googling for "mic splitter" or "combiner".
-
- zen recordist
- Posts: 7484
- Joined: Tue Jun 01, 2004 10:30 pm
- Location: Bloomington IL
- Contact:
Re: Y cable on top+bottom Tom mics
Unfortunately, Audio Technica discontinued the 8681. Garges loved them!
https://www.audio-technica.com/en-us/mi ... ics/at8681
https://www.audio-technica.com/en-us/mi ... ics/at8681
- losthighway
- resurrected
- Posts: 2349
- Joined: Mon Apr 14, 2008 8:02 pm
- Contact:
Re: Y cable on top+bottom Tom mics
Perhaps not unlike the typical ratio of outside kic mic to inside.The Scum wrote: ↑Thu Aug 04, 2022 6:03 pm
My experience is that I usually want to bottom head quieter than the top, so a 1:1 balance via a y-cable might not be ideal. That Radial deal is a well-thought-out solution. Or, in the schematic linked above, bump the bottom head resistors up a bit...470, 560, or 750 maybe.
- digitaldrummer
- cryogenically thawing
- Posts: 3519
- Joined: Wed Nov 23, 2005 9:51 pm
- Location: Austin, Texas
- Contact:
Re: Y cable on top+bottom Tom mics
but also refer to the quote in losthighway's signature... (Mo' Mics Mo' problems) as it is words to live by.
- Nick Sevilla
- on a wing and a prayer
- Posts: 5571
- Joined: Mon Mar 03, 2008 1:34 pm
- Location: Lake Arrowhead California USA
- Contact:
Re: Y cable on top+bottom Tom mics
ALL-A-DAT.The Scum wrote: ↑Thu Aug 04, 2022 6:03 pmThings you learn when doing the top/bottom tom mic thing:
Tuning the drums is critical. If the bottom head isn't in tune with the top, the result is mush. And if the bottom head is the same pitch as the top, it doesn't contribute much...just more of the same. A 3rd, 4th, or 5th away from the top (either direction) can fatten things up.
Bottom tom heads sing along with the rest of kit. They'll resonate along with the kick and snare. Which leads to gates and gaff tape.
My experience is that I usually want to bottom head quieter than the top, so a 1:1 balance via a y-cable might not be ideal. That Radial deal is a well-thought-out solution. Or, in the schematic linked above, bump the bottom head resistors up a bit...470, 560, or 750 maybe.
Howling at the neighbors. Hoping they have more mic cables.
- Recycled_Brains
- resurrected
- Posts: 2354
- Joined: Tue Nov 22, 2005 6:58 pm
- Location: Albany, NY
- Contact:
Re: Y cable on top+bottom Tom mics
Ideally, a combiner with a level control on one of the inputs would be ideal, but almost every time I've mic'd the tops and bottoms of toms I've set the faders at the same volume then committed to single tracks (after I edit) in ProTools.
For me the main drawback would be less editing options. Kurt Ballou mentioned a trick in his TO interview.... edit the top mic shorter, bottom mic longer. Good attack, more sustain w/out as much weird bleed stuff popping in and out. It works well.
For me the main drawback would be less editing options. Kurt Ballou mentioned a trick in his TO interview.... edit the top mic shorter, bottom mic longer. Good attack, more sustain w/out as much weird bleed stuff popping in and out. It works well.
Re: Y cable on top+bottom Tom mics
That's it!drumsound wrote: ↑Thu Aug 04, 2022 8:22 pmUnfortunately, Audio Technica discontinued the 8681. Garges loved them!
https://www.audio-technica.com/en-us/mi ... ics/at8681
As I recall changed to using just one instead of two mic's on the rack toms in order to get two on the snare, but I wanted two mic's on both so I got this.
Eventually I realized that I typically preferred having just one (varying the location re what the track needed) mic on the snare; I really didn't like/need a bottom mic, and if I side-mic'd I could set up to use the OH's instead of a dedicated top mic and be happy.
The cool thing about that unit is you can adjust the balance between the two mic's, which cheaper splitter/combiners like the ART may not offer.
It does work really well, needs but also passes phantom power.
AT says discontinued but I found a new one listed here:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/255533061322?h ... SwS8ZifAwL
- trodden
- on a wing and a prayer
- Posts: 5697
- Joined: Wed May 07, 2003 8:21 am
- Location: C-attle
- Contact:
Re: Y cable on top+bottom Tom mics
These Radial units are fucking great. I bought a couple since my console was in the shop for a bit and I prefer to sum guitar/bass cab mics when tracking since usually have at least two close mic's on each bass and guitar cab. I work better when making some commitments when tracking. That way I don't end up with 11-14 tracks, but 5-7 for a single bass and two guitars. (DI, Cab for bass and DI, Cab, and maybe Room) for each guitar) I sometimes use the DI track later through an amp modeler plug for some different texture/tone options for both bass and guitar.numberthirty wrote: ↑Thu Aug 04, 2022 5:48 pmAccounting for that you are working with that and talking "Prog..."?alexdingley wrote: ↑Thu Aug 04, 2022 3:33 pmNot anymore. My exploration of this idea came partially out of the fact that I’m gonna be relying predominantly upon a pair of 8ch I/Os and with a prog rock drum kit & vocals, keys, guitars, Tom mics might get combined / also have always been curious about the top/bottom Tom mic stuff.
Very much JUST a curiosity at this moment.
I can't help but think something like this might be the best way to address the issue in your specific set of circumstances.
(and I dislike throwing a notable amount of cash at a problem...)
https://www.radialeng.com/product/mix-21
That said, the Radial unit in question addresses the "Phase..." issue that you will need to deal with while also giving you a way to set the repsective level of the "Tom Top..."/"Tom Bottom..." microphones.
Seems like a fair amount of potential upside that could justify the amount you would have to invest.
- Nick Sevilla
- on a wing and a prayer
- Posts: 5571
- Joined: Mon Mar 03, 2008 1:34 pm
- Location: Lake Arrowhead California USA
- Contact:
Re: Y cable on top+bottom Tom mics
Yup, those should do the trick.trodden wrote: ↑Sat Aug 06, 2022 8:25 amThese Radial units are fucking great. I bought a couple since my console was in the shop for a bit and I prefer to sum guitar/bass cab mics when tracking since usually have at least two close mic's on each bass and guitar cab. I work better when making some commitments when tracking. That way I don't end up with 11-14 tracks, but 5-7 for a single bass and two guitars. (DI, Cab for bass and DI, Cab, and maybe Room) for each guitar) I sometimes use the DI track later through an amp modeler plug for some different texture/tone options for both bass and guitar.
Howling at the neighbors. Hoping they have more mic cables.
Who is online
Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 98 guests