Bass and octaves and low end

[trodden]

Hello good people.
Working on a record where the bass guitar is a Bass VI style guitar. I've got one song where the player is up high on the neck and I'm looking to fill in some bottom octaves. Band is a three piece: Drumbs, Guit, Bass IV.

I'm waiting on my LowEnder plug in to hopefully be re-instated, I seem to have lost it with my current system.

It's a "dance punk" type of tune, so the kick is definitely going to have some room to shine. But I'm wanting to fill in some of the lows with something else. I've also been playing with R-Bass on the Bass VI track, which does fill some of that gap and will also try the LowEnder plug once I get it working again. I'm also thinking of maybe a synth/hammond pad/chord down there instead.

I'm always really paranoid of messing with bass frequencies since I seem to already mix so bass heavy as it is. I've learned to accept that. Guess I'm looking for any advice when dealing with Rbass or LowEnder (I know they are very different plugs/engines) for this type of application or other ideas to balance out the mix and fill that gap between 80hz-200hz where all there seems to be is kick and the lows of the guitar right now.

[Nick Sevilla]

I would recommend coming up with a 2nd new low bass part, and recording that. Rather than trying to lower the existing bass part.

There is no law prohibiting the use of more than one bass guitar on one song.

[kslight]

I play bass vi a lot, on some projects it is my primary instrument - but I rarely treat it as a “bass” source in the mix, it is often played as a “guitar” in the vein of The Cure, etc.. Though depending on how their bass vi is configured, in my experience the choice of pickup setting is crucial to the part - neck + middle combined produces a strong fundamental on mine, for example.

I agree it is probably more of an arrangement issue than anything, suggest adding another part….bass, synth, drum (808?). If that’s not possible, perhaps reach for some form of harmonizer effect.

[markjazzbassist]

you could have the bass VI player use an octave pedal, if they are chording then it's gotta be digital (ehx pog), if it's single notes you can use any of the analog ones (boss oc 2, mxr, etc)

[A.David.MacKinnon]

I'm kinda with everyone else here. I've had similar problems to solve and never found a plug in solution that really does it for me. I've used lowender a bunch and love it but I've never had much luck using it as a fix. When it works it's because I'm implementing it at the start to craft a whole sound rather than fix a problem.

When I need low end and want to feel it more than hear it I reach for bass pedals or in my case the Rheem Key Bass. They do a great job off filling up the lows without feeling like another "part" has been added to the arrangement.

[Recycled_Brains]

I had an album with a bass VI recently. Just came out today actually. They just don't have the low end like a regular bass does. Any time I tried to crank it on an EQ, it didn't do anything productive. They sound fuckin' GROSS through a V4 on explode volume though. I just made the kick the "sub" instrument instead.

[trodden]

Thanks all.
I'm going to add some new parts with a synth or hammond patch as a place holder and see if the band wants to either use that as an idea to work off of and add a second bass IV part or just keep my parts that I come up with as a placeholder. They seem back and forth about how much they want this to be "how they sound live" verses letting me Phil Spector it.

[trodden]

I would recommend coming up with a 2nd new low bass part, and recording that. Rather than trying to lower the existing bass part.

There is no law prohibiting the use of more than one bass guitar on one song.

Indeed. I was in a two-bass band between 1997-2008. No "regular guitars". Live sound people where completely baffled on what to do with us back then... "WHAT NO GUITAR??" "What? KEYBOARDS??" "Who's the lead bass then?" ..also considering all 5 of us were screaming/singing along with two keyboard rigs and additional percussion.

[losthighway]

Apologies, this is a potentially annoying non-answer..... But what if the answer is leaving a hole? Last year I got into an album by The Casual Dots (ex Bikini Kill), a trio with two guitars and no bass. It's a cool sounding record and the hole in the lows is part of the sound. Kind of like the earlier Sleater Kinney albums.

Granted this is a paradigm shift for a rock mix so it would take more exploring to make it sound right.

[trodden]

Apologies, this is a potentially annoying non-answer..... But what if the answer is leaving a hole? Last year I got into an album by The Casual Dots (ex Bikini Kill), a trio with two guitars and no bass. It's a cool sounding record and the hole in the lows is part of the sound. Kind of like the earlier Sleater Kinney albums.

Granted this is a paradigm shift for a rock mix so it would take more exploring to make it sound right.

Not annoying at all. This has also been on my mind.

[vvv]

Jon Spencer Blues Explosion is/was bassless, and there's a Riot Girl band, Wild Flag (from Sleater-Kinney) that's pretty good.

I play a fair amount of Bass VI and as kslightsaid, when the song is arranged for it I'm kinda using it like the Cure, or Joy Division/New Order, or else it's just another guitar. I also like using it like The Church.

Techincally it's an octave below a guitar and above a 4-string, I believe.

For me, the joy is powerchords that change the higher note (like, I and V and then change to I and vii).

Drop D can be pretty fun, too.

[Scodiddly]

If they've been rehearsing it that way, then I'd probably want to feature it that way.

Maybe a chance to make the drums a lot heavier?

[kslight]

Jon Spencer Blues Explosion is/was bassless, and there's a Riot Girl band, Wild Flag (from Sleater-Kinney) that's pretty good.

I play a fair amount of Bass VI and as kslightsaid, when the song is arranged for it I'm kinda using it like the Cure, or Joy Division/New Order, or else it's just another guitar. I also like using it like The Church.

Techincally it's an octave below a guitar and above a 4-string, I believe.

For me, the joy is powerchords that change the higher note (like, I and V and then change to I and vii).

Drop D can be pretty fun, too.

It is a guitar tuned an octave down, which is the same as a standard tuned 4 string bass, just with two higher strings.

[vvv]

Yes, mine was an in-artful phrasing. (Meant to said, "Techincally it's an octave below a guitar and goes above a 4-string, I believe.")

It's usually like a shortscale (my Revelation is 30") with an added high B and E that are an octave down from a 6 string guitar's.

The bottom 4 strings seem a bit lighter gauge than my Ibanez Talman and Rogue (Hofner clone) shortscalers, mebbe.

[Recycled_Brains]

I just remembered a thing I did not too long ago... Soundtoys Filterfreak has 3 presets, "bass thickener", "kick asser-1" & "kick asser-2". I've definitely used those (tweaked a little) on toms and bass to add lower sub octave stuff. Maybe try those? IIRC, you barely need any to notice it.