Underwhelmed by ATMOS music (So far)

Recording Techniques, People Skills, Gear, Recording Spaces, Computers, and DIY

Moderators: drumsound, tomb

Post Reply
User avatar
alexdingley
buyin' a studio
Posts: 804
Joined: Fri Feb 13, 2004 10:00 am
Location: Greater Philadelphia Area
Contact:

Underwhelmed by ATMOS music (So far)

Post by alexdingley » Sun Feb 05, 2023 12:23 pm

So, I just came back from our town's local ultra-hi-fi showroom... these folks are the tops in home theater & hi-end audio installations (around here anyway), and my goal was to listen to some ATMOS music playback on a really nice system in a really nice room, and (hopefully) be blown away in the same way that I was when I first listened to SACD 5.1 mixes of: Dark Side of the Moon, Rumors, and The Downward Spiral.
  • Really nice room? ✓
  • Really nice system? ✓
  • Blown away? — not even close.
I called ahead a few days ago, explained my goals: (to see if ATMOS music listening was gonna be compelling enough that I'd really wanna go for it in my new home). When I got there, the sales rep / demo-er was mostly experienced in showing off theater systems & ATMOS for movies... he was so stoked to play me a dog-fight from the new Top Gun Movie. I explained the goal, and he had to switch gears. Sadly, the rig they had set up wasn't logged-into any of the streaming services, so that was a hassle, but (after 10-15min) they finally got signed into the streaming account... There were a bunch of playlists on Tidal with Dolby Atmos promoted, so we checked those out. A bunch of classic stuff & a mix of new rock & hip-hop.

Almost ALL of the tracks we listened to sounded a little confusing / distracting... There was a modern hip-hop/electronic track that had some really tasteful use of vocal delays that spanned the height speakers and moved to the back. That said, it was soooooooo not as engaging as the 5.1 mixes I fell in love with in the 2000's. I've heard that Pink Floyd's dark side should be seeing an ATMOS release this year (it's the 50th anniversary), so I'm curious to go back if/when that comes out.

Has anyone else listened to ATMOS music mixes in a nice listening environment? Any different or similar experiences? Is anyone on here actually mixing in ATMOS?

User avatar
Nick Sevilla
on a wing and a prayer
Posts: 5555
Joined: Mon Mar 03, 2008 1:34 pm
Location: Lake Arrowhead California USA
Contact:

Re: Underwhelmed by ATMOS music (So far)

Post by Nick Sevilla » Sun Feb 05, 2023 5:22 pm

At first I was excited to see a new listening format. But not anymore.

ATMOS is really for MOVIES. Really, it is. Dolby Labs is trying hard to push for us all to jump in, but it simply does not work well with music. For several reasons.

1. We are accustomed to a certain kind of SONORITY (the impact the music makes on us.)

2. The Apple version of Atmos on their earpieces is HORRIFICALLY BAD. It is nowhere near what the mixer and artist did.

3. Most of the stuff being released is just rehashed 5.1 mixes upmixed to Atmos. Few artists have the budget to go in and mix completely from scratch. Some are, but it is not commonplace.

4. Most of the ATMOS re releases are too soft in volume. So you don't get that impact. They need to make it fucking louder. And there are few DAWs and plugin companies who have the tools to make it so.

That said, I am working on original music right now, so I will release one to two songs in Atmos, and try to make them loud and pleasing as I can. As a test of sorts. Will I be successful? Who knows. I am trying to see how to mix to the damned Apple specs, as they are NOT Dolby Atmos, but some other format. I may just put those on my own server, in order to be able to fully QC the stuff.
Howling at the neighbors. Hoping they have more mic cables.

User avatar
losthighway
resurrected
Posts: 2347
Joined: Mon Apr 14, 2008 8:02 pm
Contact:

Re: Underwhelmed by ATMOS music (So far)

Post by losthighway » Sun Feb 05, 2023 5:22 pm

I can't say that I've given it a proper test drive like you, but starting with surround I've been skeptical at multispeaker innovations in music. Mostly because it's not analogous to live music. I don't want the drums in front of me and the guitar solo to come in behind me.

I think the sales guy's focus was revealing: this might be a great cinematic experience. I don't predict it will take off as a music format.

User avatar
alexdingley
buyin' a studio
Posts: 804
Joined: Fri Feb 13, 2004 10:00 am
Location: Greater Philadelphia Area
Contact:

Re: Underwhelmed by ATMOS music (So far)

Post by alexdingley » Sun Feb 05, 2023 8:12 pm

Nick Sevilla wrote:
Sun Feb 05, 2023 5:22 pm
2. The Apple version of Atmos on their earpieces is HORRIFICALLY BAD. It is nowhere near what the mixer and artist did.
A-FUCKING-MEN — it really does sound like utter dog-shit, in my experience. I was mowing the lawn, this fall, and I put on Faith No More's "The Real Thing", and I gather that they only bothered to mix one of the songs in Atmos, because the first song played normally, then the 2nd track came on and it sounded like there was some fucked up phase thing happening / it was quieter / and the vocals sounded like they vanishing. Then I realized it was the "head tracking" feature. Turning that OFF brought back the impact & clarity in the mix.

Even as I type this, I was just testing out some albums I know very well, and the Apple Spatial thing is just not good. Even with the Personalized spatial-audio profile that I created.. it's just distracting from the music. And the whole thing where, if you turn your head for like 5-10 sec, then the whole sound-stage slides over to catch up with you. That's lame as hell.

So far, spatial audio feels like the sonic version of "Parallax" iOS backgrounds (where the background image has a faux perspective shift, so that your icons are given a 3D effect when you tilt & pivot your iOS device. And I'm having basically the same reaction: "oh apple, that's cute for like 3sec, but it's not that cool, and it's probably just draining my batteries."

kslight
mixes from purgatory
Posts: 2968
Joined: Tue Oct 13, 2009 7:40 pm

Re: Underwhelmed by ATMOS music (So far)

Post by kslight » Mon Feb 06, 2023 5:47 am

I don’t get the appeal for most contemporary music.

For film, it can be cool. We had a top tier theatre in town with the best projection and a real atmos setup, was very impressive for certain things. Sadly they got bought by AMC and I will not funnel any money into them. If you’ve seen those Nicole Kidman AMC commercials..those were actually filmed at this theater…

But what most people could have at home is not that, and that’s where the sort of blurry definition of atmos starts. When I was introduced to atmos it was the 64 speaker / 128 channel protocol like the theatre mentioned above. At home people might have a glorified surround sound setup (of likely compromised positioning by the spouse), but at best the average home atmos implementation might be soundbar that does some kind of weird science, or earbuds of some kind. I understand that these things are sort of seen as scalable but it’s hard to buy in to this idea when nobody is going to have the same experience and even having some vague approximation of it seems impractical for most…out of reach to do it “correctly.”

drumsound
zen recordist
Posts: 7474
Joined: Tue Jun 01, 2004 10:30 pm
Location: Bloomington IL
Contact:

Re: Underwhelmed by ATMOS music (So far)

Post by drumsound » Mon Feb 06, 2023 6:56 am

We've seen this with Quad, 5.1, SACD, and now ATMOS. None of these things appeal to the average music listener and, as a music format, it will die on the vine.

Film is different. The idea of being in the middle of the movie makes sense because life happens 360º around us. Music is, generally, for a point source. Even seeing an orchestra, which is pretty wide, still comes 100% in front of us, with some ambiance around us. So anything beyond reverb and delay coming for behind or above isn't going to sit right.

User avatar
analogika
gettin' sounds
Posts: 116
Joined: Sat Aug 17, 2013 2:41 am
Contact:

Re: Underwhelmed by ATMOS music (So far)

Post by analogika » Mon Feb 06, 2023 8:04 am

It all started going downhill when we went to stereo.

User avatar
A.David.MacKinnon
ears didn't survive the freeze
Posts: 3819
Joined: Wed May 07, 2003 5:57 am
Location: Toronto
Contact:

Re: Underwhelmed by ATMOS music (So far)

Post by A.David.MacKinnon » Mon Feb 06, 2023 9:06 am

kslight wrote:
Mon Feb 06, 2023 5:47 am
IAt home people might have a glorified surround sound setup (of likely compromised positioning by the spouse), but at best the average home atmos implementation might be soundbar that does some kind of weird science, or earbuds of some kind.
At home people can't be counted on to set up two speakers very well. Or they're used to listening on a Bluetooth speaker which is basically mono once you're a foot away.
The idea that music creators will buy into the idea of implementing any kind of surround sound in mixes goes completely against the real life trend of how people listen to music. It seems like busy work to me.

User avatar
markjazzbassist
tinnitus
Posts: 1050
Joined: Mon Apr 25, 2011 11:33 am
Location: Cleveland

Re: Underwhelmed by ATMOS music (So far)

Post by markjazzbassist » Mon Feb 06, 2023 9:26 am

my friend did a Dolby Atmos seminar at Sweetwater this last weekend, he stated they told him that its going to help get people "back into the big studios" (of which i am extremely skeptical). to me it seems Dolby and others are creating solutions for needs that don't exist in service of their declining sales. I would much prefer Dolby and others service the current market and it's needs rather then create things like this that are DOA. but i am also an old soul and change can be difficult for me so maybe it's just my own personal bias.

User avatar
digitaldrummer
ghost haunting audio students
Posts: 3476
Joined: Wed Nov 23, 2005 9:51 pm
Location: Austin, Texas
Contact:

Re: Underwhelmed by ATMOS music (So far)

Post by digitaldrummer » Mon Feb 06, 2023 9:47 am

me...listening via Atmos on my Pono...
:twisted:
Mike
www.studiodrumtracks.com -- Drum tracks starting at $50!
www.doubledogrecording.com

drumsound
zen recordist
Posts: 7474
Joined: Tue Jun 01, 2004 10:30 pm
Location: Bloomington IL
Contact:

Re: Underwhelmed by ATMOS music (So far)

Post by drumsound » Tue Feb 07, 2023 6:37 am

digitaldrummer wrote:
Mon Feb 06, 2023 9:47 am
me...listening via Atmos on my Pono...
:twisted:
This is an excellent point. The music industry couldn't even get people interested in high resolution stereo...

lysander
pushin' record
Posts: 284
Joined: Sat Jun 19, 2004 2:05 pm

Re: Underwhelmed by ATMOS music (So far)

Post by lysander » Fri Feb 10, 2023 6:48 am

I think maybe the real opportunity for atmos music is in cars.

User avatar
alexdingley
buyin' a studio
Posts: 804
Joined: Fri Feb 13, 2004 10:00 am
Location: Greater Philadelphia Area
Contact:

Re: Underwhelmed by ATMOS music (So far)

Post by alexdingley » Fri Feb 10, 2023 7:28 am

lysander wrote:
Fri Feb 10, 2023 6:48 am
I think maybe the real opportunity for atmos music is in cars.
I'm not sure — Again, the "impact" (volume) isn't really the same as stereo mixed music, so I feel like a lot of nuance would be lost to road noise. Granted, the cars most likely to implement would be luxury cars with better noise-suppressing designs, but still.

Have any of you ever sat in the Acura models with the "ELS" package; including 5.1 channel DVD-Audio playback? If you've never heard of that, then I think it makes the point... maybe it's so esoteric that it'll never take off.

lysander
pushin' record
Posts: 284
Joined: Sat Jun 19, 2004 2:05 pm

Re: Underwhelmed by ATMOS music (So far)

Post by lysander » Fri Feb 10, 2023 8:03 am

I get your points -- especially the idea that such an implementation would work better in luxury cars. To me the car just seems like a great opportunity for atmos because you have this controlled space with fixed listening positions and the opportunity to place multiple speakers. But yeah, noisy! And like you suggest it's possible the effect is just too subtle and the payoff likely to be too negligible for it to catch on. I just think if atmos music is going to work anywhere, it's most likely going to be in the car first.

User avatar
Scodiddly
genitals didn't survive the freeze
Posts: 3957
Joined: Wed Dec 10, 2003 6:38 am
Location: Mundelein, IL, USA
Contact:

Re: Underwhelmed by ATMOS music (So far)

Post by Scodiddly » Fri Feb 10, 2023 4:34 pm

What's nice about ATMOS is that it doesn't depend on a specific speaker layout. But it does still seem like it would be best in theatres and such, otherwise it's just the manufacturers hoping once again to sell a lot of new speaker systems.

Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 85 guests