The dreaded Pro Tools upgrade

[trodden]

Trading "up" to an 11 year old computer sounds crazy to me.

When I started we had to have a console and large format tape machines to work. When I read a post like this I just don't get it.

I feel like my advice would be unwelcome but here goes.

My advice would be to get the best (supported) computer and interface (supported) that you could afford so you could work without headaches and work arounds. And think about the subscription model too. There are advantages to it.

Yeah, when I started I had a 16 track 1" machine and freakin' Mackie 8 buss...

What do you not "get"? That I'm broke and trying to continue making records for people who don't have budgets like they did back when you started or that we unfortunately have to rely on computers these days?

I'm merely trying to navigate through the storm of pro tools licenses and technology that depreciates the minute you unbox it, and in a manner that remains in my budget where I can continue to offer my skills to people. I don't know what's not to get with that. I'd figure this place would be the most unpretentious hang to ask such questions.

As for your advice, I agree. I also think all of the options I am looking at are still supported, as far as I know. And that's why I am here asking these questions to find out.

[trodden]

Woah woah.. so you're saying by those dates, even the software won't work with that hardware, unless I don't do my yearly "upgrade" after that date?

And Pro Tools Studio Perpetual won't work with omni/HD Native thunderbolt?

Fuck I hate Avid.

no, not saying it won't work, but if it doesn't they won't help you (or fix it). But also if you have a "working" and supported configuration and then you freeze that - meaning no PT upgrades, no OS patches or upgrades, (probably no new plugins too although they are less likely to cause a problem) etc. -- then it should continue working the same as long as the hardware is still good (and you have the perpetual license).

Still not sure about PT Studio working with the Omni/HD thunderbolt. In the past PT Ultimate was always required for HD/HDX products. And I think that is like $749 to reinstate/upgrade and then $399/yr if you want continued maintenance (and that seems ridiculous if you are not a commercial studio... and even then... go ahead, hate Avid!)

Got it.
Oh and my Avid hatred is just an extension of my disdain over capitalism mostly. They're just playing the game we all have to play to fucking survive.

[trodden]

Still not sure about PT Studio working with the Omni/HD thunderbolt. In the past PT Ultimate was always required for HD/HDX products. And I think that is like $749 to reinstate/upgrade and then $399/yr if you want continued maintenance (and that seems ridiculous if you are not a commercial studio... and even then... go ahead, hate Avid!)

Yeah, you are completely correct. Fuck. I was ready to throw down on a PT Studio license. I'm working 65-85 hours a week currently to catch up on some emergency bills that came about over the last two years. One more house repair emergency, car repair, cat (meow) repair and I'm fucked! So building up that savings account again. I'm thinking I'll do a monthly PT Studio subscription until I have my garage finally built out and then can have more regular audio work to pay for the Ultimate subscription. Right now, most of my studio work is only 10-12 hours a week, working on a couple of records besides my own.. while live sound and events at KEXP and A2'ing sports broadcasts are like 10-40 hours a month... so on top of the forty-hour-a-week day job, I'm stocking grocery store shelves 25-30 hours a week during the graveyard shift. Yeah, my sleep is fucked! But I have a deal with myself is that the studio pays for the studio, and I really need to use whatever money that's coming in for both my savings and finishing my build out. So I think the PT Studio subscription would be best at the moment.

[numberthirty]

Trading "up" to an 11 year old computer sounds crazy to me.

When I started we had to have a console and large format tape machines to work. When I read a post like this I just don't get it.

I feel like my advice would be unwelcome but here goes.

My advice would be to get the best (supported) computer and interface (supported) that you could afford so you could work without headaches and work arounds. And think about the subscription model too. There are advantages to it.

Yeah, when I started I had a 16 track 1" machine and freakin' Mackie 8 buss...

What do you not "get"? That I'm broke and trying to continue making records for people who don't have budgets like they did back when you started or that we unfortunately have to rely on computers these days?

I'm merely trying to navigate through the storm of pro tools licenses and technology that depreciates the minute you unbox it, and in a manner that remains in my budget where I can continue to offer my skills to people. I don't know what's not to get with that. I'd figure this place would be the most unpretentious hang to ask such questions.

As for your advice, I agree. I also think all of the options I am looking at are still supported, as far as I know. And that's why I am here asking these questions to find out.

Least "You Ain't Helping..." way i can think to put this...

Looking in from the outside?

It feels like there are a whole bunch of versions of "I Am Attempting To Jam Econo..." where it seems like you might have to throw money at it two or three times to get to a workable situation.

Factoring that it, I can totally get the "Best Supported You Can Afford..." advice. It looks(again, from the outside looking in...) like the company is doing every single thing in it's power to make sure that folks like you do not have a seat at the table.

(Oscar The Grouching aside, I am gonna send you ten bucks if I should come up money ahead on a scratch off ticket...)

(Seriously, good luck working this thing out...)

[trodden]

(Seriously, good luck working this thing out...)

Thank you. It all comes with time eventually. I just need to think out loud here and there for it to get in motion.

[numberthirty]

(Seriously, good luck working this thing out...)

Thank you. It all comes with time eventually. I just need to think out loud here and there for it to get in motion.

To say the very least...

It's just a drag to see a company literally taking such an antagonistic stance when it comes to a certain percentage of folks who would be willing to become customers if the company was taking so much as a really small step towards them.

[trodden]

(Seriously, good luck working this thing out...)

Thank you. It all comes with time eventually. I just need to think out loud here and there for it to get in motion.

To say the very least...

It's just a drag to see a company literally taking such an antagonistic stance when it comes to a certain percentage of folks who would be willing to become customers if the company was taking so much as a really small step towards them.

The fact they didn't add an AES/Spdif digital via XLR or RCA in and out on their new "CARBON" (focused to us lowly bottom dwellers who run semi-commercial spaces) really fucking irks me. I would be down and done if it had that access for the price it costs (which includes a PT ULTIMATE license). It's still an option, I just would like to add a friends BURL B2 or continue using my BLA Sparrow MkII.

EDIT- Now I am hearing that the BURL does have a TOSLINK connector. I was told it was only AES through XLR or Coaxial/RCA. Interesting.

Another Edit- Ha! his is an older one without TOSLINK.

[Nick Sevilla]

Here is what I have and did:

I too have an older Mac Pro tower with PT HD 10.3.10 and an HD3 Accel system.

It stays that way forever. Even when they came out ith the new PT HD system back in the day, it would have meant buying a new tower, new Acel cards, new interfaces. I was looking at around $15,000 to upgrade. Hell no.

Instead, I saved up a bit, got a Mac Book Pro laptop, and new Dante capable interface. A Focusrite RedNet 2, 16 in and out converter.
I kept one Pro Tools license up to date out of the 6-7 I own. It is the "Studio" version now, which is the mid price one. Usually you can find the updates cheaper once a year,, as someone other than Avid has a sale, and even Avid has a sale sometimes. The HD 10.3.10 TDM does not get updated. The only reason I kkeep one license up to daate, is to be able to open PT sessions that are current.

I also have a UAD Satellite Quad Firewire 800, which is no longer supported, however it works with the old PT 10 system, so I can route to and from it when needed, via Dante. 32 channels in and out from the old tower, with almost no latency. And I do not need the TDM system to do that.

The reason for Dante is that it is very much still in use, and it seems future proof. It is audio over ethernet cable. There are tons of manufacturers that offer that as an option now, including mixing consoles, interfaces, converters, and speaker amplifiers, you name it. Rather that buy another proprietary converter, I choose that. It is rock solid,, and works with any DAW. Check out the new Yamaha Dante console as an example.

As to DAW, I moved on to Steinberg's Nuendo. They had a 20th Anniversary upgrade path, so I went from version 1.5 (almost 20 years old LOL) all the way to the current version for $300 bucks. Way better DAW. And their upgrades are on average every two years paid, otherwise all updates are free. The one time I updated it cost $200. That was once in three years so far. No yearly subscription bullshit. More features, including Atmos, binaural, etc. I know Avid is working on similar stuff, but for now,, you'd need more $$$ to get to that sort of feature set.

The other consideration was the plugins. I had been keeping them updated, so it was not too much to move them over to the new laptop system. About $500 bucks for the changeover. And I do keep them up to date, the only company having a yearly thing is Waves. All others I upgrade if I need to.

So, if I were you, I'd get a Dante capable interface or console, and a Mac Book Pro Laptop. (for now, the Mac Mini might work,but you must make sure the Dante software will be compatible with it's operating system.) I'd also just buy a new Studio license. keep the old perpetual one with your older system intact. Otherwise, god forbid you have to open a session one day on the older system, and if you don't have that license, you'd be screwed.

[trodden]

Here is what I have and did:

I too have an older Mac Pro tower with PT HD 10.3.10 and an HD3 Accel system.

So, if I were you, I'd get a Dante capable interface or console, and a Mac Book Pro Laptop. (for now, the Mac Mini might work,but you must make sure the Dante software will be compatible with it's operating system.) I'd also just buy a new Studio license. keep the old perpetual one with your older system intact. Otherwise, god forbid you have to open a session one day on the older system, and if you don't have that license, you'd be screwed.

This is all great info. The mac mini is just a free temporary stop gap to help me get into a new system while saving some money in the process of doing so. Even the new mac mini's are very affordable in the end. That said, I am typing on a 10 year old Macbook Pro that I use for "basic computin", softsynths,and LIVE. It would be nice to retire this one for only on-stage use when running LIVE and softsynths with blackQueen. So a new Macbook Pro would be nice to have, and eventually needed.
I love DANTE. It's used a lot in the Broadcast TV audio world, and at KEXP, our gathering space stage box is all DANTE that also connects to the control room and live room. So I'll be mixing an event out there for the attended audience, and my pre amp signals are sent back to the control room and then mixed by another engineer for the broadcast audience. All through a single cable. The idea that you're using DANTE to use your older UAD Satellite, with the new DAW and Macbook, is genius. Great problem solving.

I do plan on collecting another ancient macpro and hell, another old Digi 192 to use as a backup whenever this one goes down, which is going to happen. The HD2 rig is just too fucking bombproof as a tracking system to put out to the pasture. I just need to get up with the times as well.

Thanks for the ideas.

[vvv]

OT, but hey! KEXP does some great stuff, I watch something onnit weekly.

[trodden]

OT, but hey! KEXP does some great stuff, I watch something onnit weekly.

Yeah! It's fucking beneficial to my mental health just being part of that organization. I'm heading there this morning just to listen to some mixes in the control room

[trodden]

This again.
I've got the FocusRite Clarett+, and have been using it for 8 addition ins/outs on my HD2 rig running PT9 on a creaky as fuck Mac tower, same rig I bought used back in 2015.

I've got the free Mac Mini (late 2012) running OS 10.15 and I'll be hooking the Clarett+ to and hopefully buying a brand spanking new PT license on Monday! I'll use this rig for overdubs and mixes. I'll keep the HD2 rig up and running for now just in case and if I'm tracking more than 8 inputs at home (not very likely).

Perpetual licenses are back! Here's my thinking regarding Pro Tools Studio license.

Four years on subscription: $300 time 4 = $1200
Four years on perpetual: $600 plus $600 ($200 each year following) if I want to keep it active each year = $1200.
But only $600 if I choose to not keep it "up-dateable" and happy with what I got.

Am I missing anything, besides Avid changing their prices in the future?

[digitaldrummer]

I think you can get the perpetual license "upgrade/reinstatement" for $199 right now

https://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail ... for-1-year

you have an existing PT9 license (they never made me surrender mine when I got the PT11 upgrade way back...)

then my PT maintenance/support has been $199/yr (but sometimes I find a place that will sell at a discount - for example I paid $179.10 for the last one...) but I could also stop paying and it would still work, but with no updates.

I've also thought I heard that Avid was going to keep the upgrade/reinstatement cost lower going forward, but we'll have to see of course.

[trodden]

I think you can get the perpetual license "upgrade/reinstatement" for $199 right now

https://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail ... for-1-year

you have an existing PT9 license (they never made me surrender mine when I got the PT11 upgrade way back...)

then my PT maintenance/support has been $199/yr (but sometimes I find a place that will sell at a discount - for example I paid $179.10 for the last one...) but I could also stop paying and it would still work, but with no updates.

I've also thought I heard that Avid was going to keep the upgrade/reinstatement cost lower going forward, but we'll have to see of course.

Great to hear about possible upgrade costs!
Sadly, my pro tools 9 license came as a used turnkey kit from G# Music that included computer, 192, and an iLok with PT 9 on it. Transferring the license to me was never an option, so I have to start fresh. I have a second iLok for my plugs that i've purchased. Which in reality, that's ok! I haven't been "current" with a PT license since PT5 (LE) and then PT 6, which I used for every fucking record I did until 2015. First with a stock Digi 001 and stock AI-3, then a modded 001 and modded AI-3, then a TDM system on three 888's, until finally getting to HD land in 2015.

[Nick Sevilla]

I pay half price for my PT update. How?

I only buy it every other year. Also, by waiting that long, it feels like they actually added useful stuff to it. And bugs. More yummy colorful bugs.