The dreaded Pro Tools upgrade

[trodden]

I hate this topic. I've been ignoring the fact that my HD2 rig has been creaking barely alive for the last two years and I really need to look into moving into at least 2015? hell, even 2020?

My studio computer, Power Mac 1,1 is on it's last leg. My 192 is acting funny. I'm on pro tools 9 but would like to move up to a newer audio engine/32 bit float/64 yada yada yada.

MUSTS/HAVES
-A fellow engineer is giving me a Mac Mini (late 2012) with a 2.3 GHz Quad-Core Intel processor, 16GB for RAM. Running 10.15.7
I'd love to be able to use this since money is tight.

-I want to stay on Pro Tools software. I know Reaper is what all the kids are using, but I'm too fucking old and busy to learn a new DAW.

-I need to have at least 16 A/D, line inputs are fine, but won't scoff at pre/line combos and prefer to have 16 D/A outs, but will work with 8. I want to start mixing in the box completely, but also want to be able to have hardware inserts for some analog gear I love. Being able to expand is great, but I got to have at least 16 ins to start since I do record bands, and could make 16 work and hopefully expand to 24 plus. By the way. I do own a Focusrite Clarett+ that is currently adat'd to my 192 for more ins and outs. So maybe my dumb ass should just start with that and whatever Pro Tools software?

-Used is great, and affordable, software included. But will go new if I have to, as long as I can use the Mac Mini i've been given. But I'm totally aware that newer rig is likely out of my budget. The important thing is that I want the better number crunching that happened past PT 9 and I'd like to be able to buy "modern" plugs, instead of being stuck on TDM/RTAS.

-my sessions are anywhere from 24-60 tracks/sends/busses, etc. Nothing too crazy. My current HD2 rig has been working fine, but I am getting to the point of pushing it too far.

WHERE I AM STUCK
-I've always used Digi's/Avid's hardware along with other things connected via ADAT/Optical and AES. I'm completely ignorant on the pluses and minuses of using something that isn't connected via a digilink cable to a HD card or such. Thunderbolt? MADI? USB? Do I go the thunderbolt PCIe chassis route? or do I use an interface that has all of that stacked in there.

-I'm completely ignorant of any of Avid's products after PT 9. I get confused between the whole "native" thing that happened around then vs the HD thing. All that really matters to me is that whatever I'm using, I can set it up for LOW as LOW latency monitoring. I don't know how I will adapt to some third party software/mixer existing under the pro tools DAW, for I've never operated like that. Maybe I could do that? I've always used whatever latency crap I was offered using an old TDM system or this current HD2 rig. I don't do a lot of tracking through plugs, because well, system availability and such, worrying about latency. But, that would be pretty fucking cool. The next important thing, which is why I always liked using AVID hardware, I need to be able to offset the latency of hardware inserts, either with the DAW automatically knowing, or via a screen int the IO section.

WHICH PT Software??
-that's a fucking song and dance in itself! Used 10,11 or 12 license? Step up to PT 2020? deal with the subscription nightmare? I DO NOT KNOW?

Hardware PRODUCTS I've been interested in, besides the FocusRite Clarett that I already own. How would these be any different, not including the CARBON, that is.
-Seemed Lynx was all the talk for a number of years.
-Antelope?
-Apollo? That exploded over the years, I hear the plugs sound good, but the plugs cost some money.
-Avid Carbon, I thought this was the answer, and I like what it offers, but no AES in/out and the price tag is steep. I will never afford a "modern" HDX rig unfortunately.

BUDGET
$2000-$4000, roughly, if I have to buy hardware. I can start smaller using the Focusrite (I prefer tracking in larger rooms than my own, and can make that happen for awhile, but can expand/spend more money to add more IO. Not having to buy the computer and using the free Mac Mini is key.

Thanks,
Brandon

[numberthirty]

...

-I want to stay on Pro Tools software. I know Reaper is what all the kids are using, but I'm too fucking old and busy to learn a new DAW.

...

I'm posting this because I care...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L7WzK-epoGw

[trodden]

By the way. I do own a Focusrite Clarett+ that is currently adat'd to my 192 for more ins and outs. So maybe my dumb ass should just start with that and whatever Pro Tools software?

[numberthirty]

Not to mention this...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XAGb2pnEXlU

[trodden]

...

-I want to stay on Pro Tools software. I know Reaper is what all the kids are using, but I'm too fucking old and busy to learn a new DAW.

...

I'm posting this because I care...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L7WzK-epoGw

Yeah I know. I work out of five other studios that are all pro tools based. Hence I kind of want that so I can go back and fourth between those studios without a lot of bullshit.

[trodden]

Not to mention this...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XAGb2pnEXlU

There's always someone who just can't shut the fuck up.

[trodden]

Not to mention this...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XAGb2pnEXlU

There's always someone who just can't shut the fuck up.

I say that in jest.

[numberthirty]

Buddy from that first clip...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x9Mmpd0YvJk

[numberthirty]

Not to mention this...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XAGb2pnEXlU

There's always someone who just can't shut the fuck up.

I say that in jest.

A little tap like that does not even register.

[numberthirty]

Seriously though...

If "I'm Gonna Have To Stick With Pro Tools..." is the course?

It seems like there was a thread(on another board...) where a Pro Tools setup on a little bit older Mac just went into the ditch(chatter during playback developed for no apparent reason out of the blue, I think?...) Believe it got worked out eventually, but the fix seemed pretty janky in my memory.

If I can dig it up, I might link to it just in case.

[numberthirty]

A few things about the Antelope(general stuff...) came up over in this thread...

viewtopic.php?f=14&t=90859

[trodden]

Hell... I could keep the old creaky HD2 rig for tracking on (16 inputs) and then transfer over to a newer version of PT on the Mac Mini and the Clarett+ for overdubs/mixing!!

[trodden]

Hell... I could keep the old creaky HD2 rig for tracking on (16 inputs) and then transfer over to a newer version of PT on the Mac Mini and the Clarett+ for overdubs/mixing!!

The more I think about it, this is the way to go for now. I just need to figure out what PT software to purchase.

[digitaldrummer]

according to this (and do study it...) it looks like the latest may work on that system (but I know little about Macs)

https://avid.secure.force.com/pkb/artic ... quirements

then there are the multitude of versions... You might skate by with Artist but may want "Studio" (that's what I have). I'm sure there is an upgrade path too.

https://www.avid.com/pro-tools/comparison

you could go with the subscription but it will cost you $299/yr for the Studio version. But a perpetual license is at least $349 for the first year and then they want $199/yr after that as long as you keep paying (but you don't have to). If you do subscription then you get nothing once you stop paying. I think since you have PT9 now, you might qualify for this re-instatement/upgrade (that's what I did back on PT11)

https://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail ... for-1-year

that gets you a perpetual license that would get updates for 1 year and after that you can decide if you want to keep paying or not. It might last you another 20 years lol. I'm on 2023.3 and it seems pretty stable for me. I'm always contemplating when to jump off this train myself. Plus you get a bunch of new features like having Melodyne built-in. Jeez all of the changes since PT9 are actually pretty significant and it's a lot of good changes.

you could always get another Clarett and then you'd have 16 I/O and that Mac hopefully has a USB port.

Also check with your current plugins and as long as you have an account showing it, some may give you an AAX plugin for free. Otherwise I found some were usually a reasonable upgrade cost and some just wnated me to buy something else lol. Get on the Plugin-Alliance mailing list and they sell perpetual plugins with free upgrades and they have sales all the time for $20, 25, 30 bucks. And there are some great free plugins too (from PA and Valhalla, etc.).

It might not be as bad as you think but it will take a lot of work to make the changeover. Do it now while you can keep both systems running in case you have to go back and bounce or compare something. Once the other system is dead then its too late.

[trodden]

you could go with the subscription but it will cost you $299/yr for the Studio version. But a perpetual license is at least $349 for the first year and then they want $199/yr after that as long as you keep paying (but you don't have to). If you do subscription then you get nothing once you stop paying. I think since you have PT9 now, you might qualify for this re-instatement/upgrade (that's what I did back on PT11)

https://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail ... for-1-year

that gets you a perpetual license that would get updates for 1 year and after that you can decide if you want to keep paying or not. It might last you another 20 years lol. I'm on 2023.3 and it seems pretty stable for me. I'm always contemplating when to jump off this train myself. Plus you get a bunch of new features like having Melodyne built-in. Jeez all of the changes since PT9 are actually pretty significant and it's a lot of good changes.

Thank you for laying it out for me. I like the idea of perpetual, and having the option to continue or not, and if I don't continue, i'm not left with nothing. I've never done a subscription based software purchase, and it just leaves a bad taste in my mouth to fork over $200 - $500 a year just to not be left in the upgrade dark, since i've always been 10 years behind in my PT licenses, and gotten by just fine. Mostly, I'm just so busy with life, that I need to start mixing in the box, and those who I have talked to, say they had much better results doing so from PT 10 and beyond. I need to be able to do revisions whenever I have a window of time open and not spend all that time recalling the console, and all the hardware I use. Would love to just keep it in the box, use some hardware inserts for the space echo and some two buss processing. Hell, when I finally went HD2 in 2015 after being on PT 6 so many years, and on an old TDM/Mix Plus rig for a handful of them, that was a night and day difference and my hardware use/hybrid approach moved more "into the box" and it was great!

The thing I'm most concerned about, and it's merely because i'm ignorant, is how much latency I'm going to be dealing with since the Clarett+ is a USB linked dongle, and not thunderbolt or running off an HD card. I managed for years on a Digi 001 from 2001-2010, but that was then, and my skill set has expanded greatly, and would be hindered by such a system these days.

I'm still building out my room, it's taken me tooooo long, but have branched out to many more options for tracking room because of that. As much as I want to say i'll be tracking full bands at other facilities, I know my clientele is still the folx who need to make a record for under 2k. So, as each studio i've put together gets smaller and smaller, the needs to be flexible still exist.