The dreaded Pro Tools upgrade

[A.David.MacKinnon]

Im running 9 in the studio and Artist on my laptop. The laptop is an older MacBook Air that isn't supposed to be compatible but is fine.
Features in artist make me wish the studio rig was more recent. Clip gain is a big game changer.
I had to buy a bunch of plugs for the laptop but it really made.me reconsideration what I actually use. It's way less than what I have available on the studio rig. Taking sessions between computers is a bit of a pain. Having older versions of some plugs in the studio means that they reset themselves to default when I open a session in 9.

The other drawback with artist is that I've hit my track limits a few times mixing things for clients. It's never an issue on my own stuff but I often get mix work with a million tracks

[digitaldrummer]

re: latency

when I moved from the Digi 002R, I had to figure out how to deal with latency too (the 002r had the input monitoring that worked ok - when a track was armed it had low latency input monitoring automatically). So I had to change my workflow a bit. When I am recording something that is latency sensitive (i.e. vocals) then I am muting the armed track in Pro Tools and I have it unmuted in the Universal Audio "Console" app. Then if I playback to listen, I need to unmute it in Pro Tools (and sometimes mute it in console when the player starts playing/singing over it while I'm trying to listen ). This means switching back and forth a bit and even though I have 2 displays, I have it split between mix/edit in Pro Tools so when I am viewing it, Console goes behind it. Depending on the interface you use, it will be a different app but they all kinda behave the same, giving you latency-free input monitoring. btw, my UA Apollo is the original firewire version and still works fine for me and I am running Windows 10 on an 11th gen i5.

then when I'm mixing I don't care about the Console app anymore other than setting the sample/bit rate or buffer settings before I pull up a session.

anyway, it didn't take me long to get used to doing this - it was mainly just getting my head around working differently than I had been doing it. Then once I made the switch (in my head) it was easy again.

and yes! clip gain!

[A.David.MacKinnon]

Hey Mike
How do you deal with the console/pro tools switching business if you want to do punch ins or something like that? Where you want to hear what's on the track up to a point and then start recording? I've only ever used UA interfaces a few times and while I really like a lot about them the console app seemed like another layer of stuff to deal with and it didn't feel like a seamless integration with the daw.
I've never had time to sit with it and figure out the work flow though. I'm curious how people handle it.

[digitaldrummer]

if I am recording myself, it's much more difficult - so I just try to set the buffer at the lowest I can get away with running the session and I just do it. with the PT monitoring. sometimes there is a little latency but it's "good enough". Sometimes I go to punch in (usually drums) and everything sounds weird and I remember that the buffer is too high so I have to stop and change it (which unfortunately means closing and restarting PT so that's a loss of 3-5 minutes at best).

but if I'm just the engineer, then it's pretty easy, I have both unmuted and just before the punch I'll hit mute in the PT session. Or if someone is playing along with the session or singing along then I'll mute the track as soon as I hear them start (otherwise it sounds like there is a slap-back or phasey robotic effect on the track). if I'm recording multiple mics/tracks I usually only give them one to monitor (if its guitar or vocal, etc) or if its drums then I can group the track in PT so I can arm/mute all at once.

it seems like there might be a "console" plugin too but I think it only saves the console settings for the session and doesn't actually allow you to control it from a plugin.... but I may have to check that again? obviously I don't use it now.

[trodden]

if I am recording myself, it's much more difficult - so I just try to set the buffer at the lowest I can get away with running the session and I just do it. with the PT monitoring. sometimes there is a little latency but it's "good enough". Sometimes I go to punch in (usually drums) and everything sounds weird and I remember that the buffer is too high so I have to stop and change it (which unfortunately means closing and restarting PT so that's a loss of 3-5 minutes at best).

but if I'm just the engineer, then it's pretty easy, I have both unmuted and just before the punch I'll hit mute in the PT session. Or if someone is playing along with the session or singing along then I'll mute the track as soon as I hear them start (otherwise it sounds like there is a slap-back or phasey robotic effect on the track). if I'm recording multiple mics/tracks I usually only give them one to monitor (if its guitar or vocal, etc) or if its drums then I can group the track in PT so I can arm/mute all at once.

it seems like there might be a "console" plugin too but I think it only saves the console settings for the session and doesn't actually allow you to control it from a plugin.... but I may have to check that again? obviously I don't use it now.

Damn sounds like some new muscle memory is in order for this operation. That kind of sucks that you have to jump through all of that or pay a few thousand more for HD ease.

[digitaldrummer]

Damn sounds like some new muscle memory is in order for this operation. That kind of sucks that you have to jump through all of that or pay a few thousand more for HD ease.

I thought that too at first, but after a week or so I never gave it another thought. It really wasn't that difficult to make the change.

[trodden]

Damn sounds like some new muscle memory is in order for this operation. That kind of sucks that you have to jump through all of that or pay a few thousand more for HD ease.

I thought that too at first, but after a week or so I never gave it another thought. It really wasn't that difficult to make the change.

Cool. I trust you on this. I'm having fucking pro tools stress dreams now, after doing all this research on what the fuck to get. Currently looking into older HD Native thunderbolt rigs as well.

[trodden]

And does the DUC Avid message board seem like just a lot of dick measurement contests to everyone else? People will be arguing latency numbers and I'm sitting here wondering what they even mean, and if they're even noticeable?

[trodden]

I'm looking at the following (unfortunately, I don't have the cashish AT the moment) but this would be a way into an Native HD system I think??

to connect to the Mac Mini $900
https://reverb.com/item/68273517-avid-p ... rbolt-core

interface $500
https://reverb.com/item/65123876-avid-h ... -interface

Then whatever the cost of a pro tools perpetual license, $400

$1800 total.

I wonder what hidden fees there would be, because I know Avid is gonna have them.

[digitaldrummer]

Be sure to check this too.

https://avid.secure.force.com/pkb/artic ... port-dates

Omni goes EOL 2025 (no more support, but does that mean they take it out of the software? they kinda did that for the old Digi 002r...) and not 16 I/O, but I guess you hook up the Scarlett.

HD Native Thunderbolt core in 2027.

so there might be a reason these are cheap. Also I think you have to get Pro Tools Ultimate to support that interface. mo $$

do you know anyone near you that has a native (non-Avid) interface or latest PT that you could test drive?

[trodden]

Be sure to check this too.

https://avid.secure.force.com/pkb/artic ... port-dates

Omni goes EOL 2025 (no more support, but does that mean they take it out of the software? they kinda did that for the old Digi 002r...) and not 16 I/O, but I guess you hook up the Scarlett.

HD Native Thunderbolt core in 2027.

so there might be a reason these are cheap. Also I think you have to get Pro Tools Ultimate to support that interface. mo $$

do you know anyone near you that has a native (non-Avid) interface or latest PT that you could test drive?

Woah woah.. so you're saying by those dates, even the software won't work with that hardware, unless I don't do my yearly "upgrade" after that date?

And Pro Tools Studio Perpetual won't work with omni/HD Native thunderbolt?

Fuck I hate Avid.

[trodden]

do you know anyone near you that has a native (non-Avid) interface or latest PT that you could test drive?

I need to ask around. All the studios that I use, are on HDX now. I'll see if I can find someone to give me run through on how they're making it work.

[trodden]

Also, supposedly, Digi 192's (pre Avid) are working with the new HDX software. I find that interesting, especially since I have one.

[digitaldrummer]

Woah woah.. so you're saying by those dates, even the software won't work with that hardware, unless I don't do my yearly "upgrade" after that date?

And Pro Tools Studio Perpetual won't work with omni/HD Native thunderbolt?

Fuck I hate Avid.

no, not saying it won't work, but if it doesn't they won't help you (or fix it). But also if you have a "working" and supported configuration and then you freeze that - meaning no PT upgrades, no OS patches or upgrades, (probably no new plugins too although they are less likely to cause a problem) etc. -- then it should continue working the same as long as the hardware is still good (and you have the perpetual license).

Still not sure about PT Studio working with the Omni/HD thunderbolt. In the past PT Ultimate was always required for HD/HDX products. And I think that is like $749 to reinstate/upgrade and then $399/yr if you want continued maintenance (and that seems ridiculous if you are not a commercial studio... and even then... go ahead, hate Avid!)

[roscoenyc]

Trading "up" to an 11 year old computer sounds crazy to me.

When I started we had to have a console and large format tape machines to work. When I read a post like this I just don't get it.

I feel like my advice would be unwelcome but here goes.

My advice would be to get the best (supported) computer and interface (supported) that you could afford so you could work without headaches and work arounds. And think about the subscription model too. There are advantages to it.