amps vs. simulators

[vvv]

not gonna go lookin' for where this came up before and I promised to link some examples - here they are:

this is the band I am in, recorded live with mic'd amps, some overdubs: https://vlayman.bandcamp.com/album/pron ... omtom-a-3p

same band, all pedals with amp simulators: https://vlayman.bandcamp.com/album/almictomx2-2

I have a lot of tube amps
I am embarrassed the simulators sound so good - not cheap but much cheaper and less space than amps, and sound really good

I am , apparently, now a collector

[kslight]

I think sims can sound good, even when not going for a miked amp sound. When I had nothing, I just would use Guitar Rig, and not one person ever complained.

IMHO the best of both worlds though if you already own amps - I enjoy plugging my amps into my two notes torpedo live and I feel like that gives me great miked sound without blowing my head off with volume in my home studio.

[Scodiddly]

A lot of the real pro folks around here have gone with the Kemper thing, aside from maybe one or two boutique pedals.

[vvv]

The posted is all Tech 21, with a Omnicab on one guitar, pedals feeding the guitar Tech 21's (various), VTB only on the bass.

IMO, totally useable, believable.

Different playing only in cans only - I do like my pant legs blowing, but sounds OK.

Gonna do it again tomorow, with more aforethought, some different sims along with T-21's.

[frans_13]

It helps when people know what it should sound like. Then you can get results with software ... and some of it is quite good already. I had high hopes for the Kemper V2, because i wasn't impressed by the Kemper just by the way it's analog i/o sounded when taking profiles... where i heard it lost 10% already before the profile was even taken, but that's another topic.

[Nick Sevilla]

They have been getting better. Much better.

Still, something must be said about something real moving air particles in a room.
The randomness. They don't quite have that down yet.

[trodden]

In the metal world, so many people are using simulators now.
Personally, I still find them sterile sounding, and I also find a lot of modern metal production sterile as fuck as well. I can't tell if that's just me being "stuck in my ways" and not being up with the modern sound, or not. I agree, they do sound "good" for what they are, but like Nick said above, something about moving sound through air and via mechanical processes creates a thing that makes my brain happy. That said, I always record a DI for both guitars and bass guitar, and often I'll use that DI through an amp sim for various parts just to add something "different" when needed. I love having that option. It's usually so processed it sounds nothing like what the amp was doing, and it's tucked in the back for some extra fun, like ridiculous amount of spring reverb, tremolo, vibrato, and filtering.
The same thing with drums. So much programmed drums and samples in modern metal. Don't get me wrong, I'll add kick and snare samples when the production calls for it. Blended in with the real drums. I'll record drums to a click if the productions calls for it, but there's still a human hitting a drum, in a room, with X amount of mics from varying distances picking that up. The flip side is that drum programming has allowed a lot more people the ability to write and make recorded music on their own, without a full band, and without the need for a space where they can have a loud ass drum set. Same can be said about the amp sims. Make a record in your apartment, that's pretty fucking cool.

[Recycled_Brains]

In the metal world, so many people are using simulators now.
Personally, I still find them sterile sounding, and I also find a lot of modern metal production sterile as fuck as well. I can't tell if that's just me being "stuck in my ways" and not being up with the modern sound, or not. I agree, they do sound "good" for what they are, but like Nick said above, something about moving sound through air and via mechanical processes creates a thing that makes my brain happy. That said, I always record a DI for both guitars and bass guitar, and often I'll use that DI through an amp sim for various parts just to add something "different" when needed. I love having that option. It's usually so processed it sounds nothing like what the amp was doing, and it's tucked in the back for some extra fun, like ridiculous amount of spring reverb, tremolo, vibrato, and filtering.
The same thing with drums. So much programmed drums and samples in modern metal. Don't get me wrong, I'll add kick and snare samples when the production calls for it. Blended in with the real drums. I'll record drums to a click if the productions calls for it, but there's still a human hitting a drum, in a room, with X amount of mics from varying distances picking that up. The flip side is that drum programming has allowed a lot more people the ability to write and make recorded music on their own, without a full band, and without the need for a space where they can have a loud ass drum set. Same can be said about the amp sims. Make a record in your apartment, that's pretty fucking cool.

There's no substitute for the real thing, but Kurt's STL tones pack is shockingly sick. I've been using it to do demo stuff, and honestly it's great. The Bass presets... I may never record a bass amp again. Dead serious. They're fucking great.

Colin Richardson and Will Putney packs are good too.

[trodden]

In the metal world, so many people are using simulators now.
Personally, I still find them sterile sounding, and I also find a lot of modern metal production sterile as fuck as well. I can't tell if that's just me being "stuck in my ways" and not being up with the modern sound, or not. I agree, they do sound "good" for what they are, but like Nick said above, something about moving sound through air and via mechanical processes creates a thing that makes my brain happy. That said, I always record a DI for both guitars and bass guitar, and often I'll use that DI through an amp sim for various parts just to add something "different" when needed. I love having that option. It's usually so processed it sounds nothing like what the amp was doing, and it's tucked in the back for some extra fun, like ridiculous amount of spring reverb, tremolo, vibrato, and filtering.
The same thing with drums. So much programmed drums and samples in modern metal. Don't get me wrong, I'll add kick and snare samples when the production calls for it. Blended in with the real drums. I'll record drums to a click if the productions calls for it, but there's still a human hitting a drum, in a room, with X amount of mics from varying distances picking that up. The flip side is that drum programming has allowed a lot more people the ability to write and make recorded music on their own, without a full band, and without the need for a space where they can have a loud ass drum set. Same can be said about the amp sims. Make a record in your apartment, that's pretty fucking cool.

There's no substitute for the real thing, but Kurt's STL tones pack is shockingly sick. I've been using it to do demo stuff, and honestly it's great. The Bass presets... I may never record a bass amp again. Dead serious. They're fucking great.

Colin Richardson and Will Putney packs are good too.

I'm ignorant to this tech. I mostly just use amplitude to add some layer flavor when needed. I'm now checking out this STL stuff. Wow. Wow. I wish I didn't. This is incredible sounding. But damn, tech is just making this all so "easy". Engineers like us are sought out because we have an interest in obtaining fucked up cool tones for inaccessible music. It's a skill set. As well as a process of collecting different amps, boxes, mics, etc. to add to the pallet. Now anyone can just DI into a DAW and preset their whole record. I love it, but also hate it. Do you use both Tone Hub and Amp Hub?

The bass tones will be ideal, since my new space is TINY and I don't really have room for a band tracking two guitars AND bass while doing drums. But I've been mostly reamping, or sansamping when it comes to bass tracked with drums when doing it at home.

[Recycled_Brains]

In the metal world, so many people are using simulators now.
Personally, I still find them sterile sounding, and I also find a lot of modern metal production sterile as fuck as well. I can't tell if that's just me being "stuck in my ways" and not being up with the modern sound, or not. I agree, they do sound "good" for what they are, but like Nick said above, something about moving sound through air and via mechanical processes creates a thing that makes my brain happy. That said, I always record a DI for both guitars and bass guitar, and often I'll use that DI through an amp sim for various parts just to add something "different" when needed. I love having that option. It's usually so processed it sounds nothing like what the amp was doing, and it's tucked in the back for some extra fun, like ridiculous amount of spring reverb, tremolo, vibrato, and filtering.
The same thing with drums. So much programmed drums and samples in modern metal. Don't get me wrong, I'll add kick and snare samples when the production calls for it. Blended in with the real drums. I'll record drums to a click if the productions calls for it, but there's still a human hitting a drum, in a room, with X amount of mics from varying distances picking that up. The flip side is that drum programming has allowed a lot more people the ability to write and make recorded music on their own, without a full band, and without the need for a space where they can have a loud ass drum set. Same can be said about the amp sims. Make a record in your apartment, that's pretty fucking cool.

There's no substitute for the real thing, but Kurt's STL tones pack is shockingly sick. I've been using it to do demo stuff, and honestly it's great. The Bass presets... I may never record a bass amp again. Dead serious. They're fucking great.

Colin Richardson and Will Putney packs are good too.

I'm ignorant to this tech. I mostly just use amplitude to add some layer flavor when needed. I'm now checking out this STL stuff. Wow. Wow. I wish I didn't. This is incredible sounding. But damn, tech is just making this all so "easy". Engineers like us are sought out because we have an interest in obtaining fucked up cool tones for inaccessible music. It's a skill set. As well as a process of collecting different amps, boxes, mics, etc. to add to the pallet. Now anyone can just DI into a DAW and preset their whole record. I love it, but also hate it. Do you use both Tone Hub and Amp Hub?

The bass tones will be ideal, since my new space is TINY and I don't really have room for a band tracking two guitars AND bass while doing drums. But I've been mostly reamping, or sansamping when it comes to bass tracked with drums when doing it at home.

I subscribed to Tonehub to try it out. I'm definitely buying it.

Here's how I look at it... it will never replace amps, but it WILL make tracking soooooo much easier in certain situations, especially if you're recording something in a non-ideal space or don't have isolation for amps and the band wants to do the takes live.

The sound doesn't commit to the track unless you route the track to another and record it or use the commit function in PT, SO, the way I see it is you have a perfectly good tone for tracking direct, but then you can reamp it later on AND also have the DI preserved so you can use the STL thing as a supplemental layer.

Also dude, you can just change presents depending on the part or duplicate the track and layer it up with different stuff. I think it will lead to lots of cool creative uses that will get you past the trepidation of using it.

Again, zero of the records I do will be exclusively this, but it will start to find it's way in for sure. I just finished a mix where I had a safety DI for a guitar, layered in a setting from STL... mix was better for it. Could have just as easily thought "this isn't helping" and turned it off.

I'm ignorant to this shit too, but it's not even remotely challenging to use.

[trodden]

Here's how I look at it... it will never replace amps, but it WILL make tracking soooooo much easier in certain situations, especially if you're recording something in a non-ideal space or don't have isolation for amps and the band wants to do the takes live.

Totally. Which is a situation I often find myself.

Also dude, you can just change presents depending on the part or duplicate the track and layer it up with different stuff. I think it will lead to lots of cool creative uses that will get you past the trepidation of using it.

Hell yeah.

[Nick Sevilla]

... SO, the way I see it is you have a perfectly good tone for tracking direct, but then you can reamp it later on AND also have the DI preserved so you can use the STL thing as a supplemental layer.

I am a big fan of getting the FINAL sound with the guitarist / bassist / instrumentalist in the session. Sadly, many seem to have become lazy AF about their tone / sound. Especially when a guitar is not their first instrument. It's very much an afterthought to them. Which pisses me off to no end, after all it is THEIR art. I usually have to take care not to care MORE than the artist does about THEIR project. Hard to do.

[Recycled_Brains]

... SO, the way I see it is you have a perfectly good tone for tracking direct, but then you can reamp it later on AND also have the DI preserved so you can use the STL thing as a supplemental layer.

I am a big fan of getting the FINAL sound with the guitarist / bassist / instrumentalist in the session.

Yes, ideally this would always be the case, but sometimes in the interest of efficiency or given the nature of the space I'm working with, I think the sims will sometimes be helpful.

[markjazzbassist]

simulators are a necessity for me. i record as a hobby and do it at night after my spouse and kids are in bed so for me Amp in a Boxes are vital because i can't mic stuff up. I'm still using mostly pedals for that (doing all analog recording) and using eq and reverb to help it out.

[drumsound]

I traded for an entier UAD account last year and several amps came with that. A couple of times I took a guitar DI along with micing an amp I literally forgot by the time I was mixing to try them...

I generally prefer a bass DI anymore, and on something earlier this year, there was a bass solo, and I used the SVT sim for that and it worked out well.

I really should experiment more with them.